Harry Muff Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 For some reason there is a big dent in one of the rotors on my RR6 Blade. Can't be good for the disc or braking in general so it'll have to be changed... Along with the other, peferctly good one. Bollocks. Anyway, Galfer ones are £170 each and the EBC ones are £150 each and bright blue. I've come across some wavy discs made by a firm called Armstrong for £125 a side. A little more wallet friendly, but are they any good? Anyone know? Or perhaps someone can recommend me a better alternative? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the link: Armstrong discs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Muff Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 EBCs aren't necessarily blue anymore. Contact B&C for details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayRC3045 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 TBH id sooner ride with no brakes than wavy discs , HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Muff Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Cheers lads. I'll give B&C and Sandy's a tickle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 FFS please do not buy wave discs.... They shread pads and once the nice sharp edge has worn off them they are worse than any OEM disc even worn out OEM ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intra Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Buy cast iron discs. You know you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexp5 Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Buy cast iron discs. You know you want to. ^What he said. PFM's if you can find/afford them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 ^What he said. PFM's if you can find/afford them. http://www.pfmbrakes.com/ click it!! Cast Iron is the only way to go mate. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 http://www.pfmbrakes.com/ click it!! Cast Iron is the only way to go mate. Pete No serious brake manufacturer uses cast iron anymore...... They all use a specific steel which has better properties and doesn't suffer from thermal shock like cast iron... I have seen too many PFM discs with heat high spots and suffer from chatter. Monkey! was using them and did say they were the best discs he has had.... but I pointed out the high spots developing at Donnington and by the end of the day after I left he had brake chatter problems.. As an engineer it is easy to see the problem. There is no buttons to allow for the different thermal expansion of the two differnent materials cast iron heats up and expands slowly as well as cooling and contracting slowly and the alloy center heats up and cools quickly so the outer can heat up and lock into the carrier and then it is no longer a full floating disc. I have seen too many sets of these discs have problems.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abos Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 No serious brake manufacturer uses cast iron anymore...... They all use a specific steel which has better properties and doesn't suffer from thermal shock like cast iron... I have seen too many PFM discs with heat high spots and suffer from chatter. Monkey! was using them and did say they were the best discs he has had.... but I pointed out the high spots developing at Donnington and by the end of the day after I left he had brake chatter problems.. As an engineer it is easy to see the problem. There is no buttons to allow for the different thermal expansion of the two differnent materials cast iron heats up and expands slowly as well as cooling and contracting slowly and the alloy center heats up and cools quickly so the outer can heat up and lock into the carrier and then it is no longer a full floating disc. I have seen too many sets of these discs have problems.... The brembo iron rotor discs I have "rattle" on there buttons when cold and move when hot but not so much so As to accomodate this expansion difference, they do work well and I would reccomend them with the correct pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abos Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 No serious brake manufacturer uses cast iron anymore...... They all use a specific steel which has better properties and doesn't suffer from thermal shock like cast iron... I have seen too many PFM discs with heat high spots and suffer from chatter. Monkey! was using them and did say they were the best discs he has had.... but I pointed out the high spots developing at Donnington and by the end of the day after I left he had brake chatter problems.. As an engineer it is easy to see the problem. There is no buttons to allow for the different thermal expansion of the two differnent materials cast iron heats up and expands slowly as well as cooling and contracting slowly and the alloy center heats up and cools quickly so the outer can heat up and lock into the carrier and then it is no longer a full floating disc. I have seen too many sets of these discs have problems.... The brembo iron rotor discs I have "rattle" on there buttons when cold and move when hot but not so much so As to Take up all the button play but enough to accomodate the expansion difference, they do work well and I would reccomend them with the correct pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I didn't know about the problems using iron discs, but they make a right mess of the front wheel, so I wouldn't use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Quite a number of race teams use Braking Wave discs but I suppose they have the resources to change them regularly but even manufacturers supply bikes with wavey style discs. If we've established both wavey and iron discs are no good, what discs are good? I'm looking to replace the discs on my bike (Kawasaki ER-6) and I was going to go for Braking Wavey's but now I'm in 2 minds. I want something that works from cold and at road legal speeds but also want something suitable for fast road and track (mainly Cadwell) use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I've heard very good things about Galfer - they do a matched pad/disc combo. Performance Parts stock them. I've never had a problem with EBCs, think they look pretty good too, now they've done away with the blue carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I've heard very good things about Galfer - they do a matched pad/disc combo. Performance Parts stock them. I've never had a problem with EBCs, think they look pretty good too, now they've done away with the blue carriers. This is good advice.. Brembo, Galfer, EBC, ISR and AP all make good quality discs and SBS, EBC, Bendix and Brembo make very good pads. Also Brembo have not made cast iron discs for over 10 years now I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 This is good advice.. Brembo, Galfer, EBC, ISR and AP all make good quality discs and SBS, EBC, Bendix and Brembo make very good pads. Also Brembo have not made cast iron discs for over 10 years now I think. I have had EBC for race/track use in the past with no probs so may go for them again but are you saying avoid the wave style discs? Earlier in this thread it says to avoid wavey discs as they shred pads and perform worse than OEM, now I read Galfer's are good but Galfer only do wavey style discs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 This is good advice.. Brembo, Galfer, EBC, ISR and AP all make good quality discs and SBS, EBC, Bendix and Brembo make very good pads. Also Brembo have not made cast iron discs for over 10 years now I think. I've heard (but not tried them) that Brembo disc material is not the best. Brembo pads are manufactured by Ferodo, and Ferodo's are cheaper. Never heard of the problems with PFM...dosen't their mountings allow enough expansion then? I can't remember the term, but I thought they had a trick system to overcome this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexp5 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Never heard of the problems with PFM...dosen't their mountings allow enough expansion then? I can't remember the term, but I thought they had a trick system to overcome this? They are held in with a hooge circlip allowing them to float. I had a PFM superbike set-up on my YZF, with the 6 pot billet PFM calipers and Goodridge hoses. 14,000 hard road miles... no problems. Just use the correct compound pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 No serious brake manufacturer uses cast iron anymore...... They all use a specific steel which has better properties and doesn't suffer from thermal shock like cast iron... I have seen too many PFM discs with heat high spots and suffer from chatter. Monkey! was using them and did say they were the best discs he has had.... but I pointed out the high spots developing at Donnington and by the end of the day after I left he had brake chatter problems.. As an engineer it is easy to see the problem. There is no buttons to allow for the different thermal expansion of the two differnent materials cast iron heats up and expands slowly as well as cooling and contracting slowly and the alloy center heats up and cools quickly so the outer can heat up and lock into the carrier and then it is no longer a full floating disc. I have seen too many sets of these discs have problems.... correct. Yes, the PFM discs were amazing, with awesome stopping power... to begin with. But as the trackday at Donny wore on, I suffered increasing vibration and they ended up looking like this one of the discs had locked solid on its mounts and was no longer rattling around. I was using the discs with brand new Performance Friction 95 compound pads, one of the recommend options by PFM. I sanded down the discs first before fitting the new pads. I spoke to Wal Saunders @ PFM afterwards hwo was very keen to help and he asked for the photos, his opinion was I didn't sand the discs down enough beforehand. He may well be right, I only sanded them down lightly. I haven't had time since Donny to be buggering about spending hours sanding back the discs, so I just lobbed the other pads back in and reverted to the OE discs. No problems with them at Cadwell, the standard brakes were fine. I might give the PFM's another try, but I'm in no hurry. I've got better things to do than be sanding discs down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo S2 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Reading with interest, as I need a set of discs for my wet wheels and was gonna use those on the bike at the moment if I can replace them with something better... Now ive got EBC pads on the thou, and they hav been OK. Not wonderful, but OK. Reading on gixerjunkies, no-one seems to rate EBC pads that highly, and its putting me off buying their discs too... I should imagine Brembo HPK discs are a very good bet, but a little on the pricey side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 correct. Yes, the PFM discs were amazing, with awesome stopping power... to begin with. But as the trackday at Donny wore on, I suffered increasing vibration and they ended up looking like this one of the discs had locked solid on its mounts and was no longer rattling around. I was using the discs with brand new Performance Friction 95 compound pads, one of the recommend options by PFM. I sanded down the discs first before fitting the new pads. I spoke to Wal Saunders @ PFM afterwards hwo was very keen to help and he asked for the photos, his opinion was I didn't sand the discs down enough beforehand. He may well be right, I only sanded them down lightly. I haven't had time since Donny to be buggering about spending hours sanding back the discs, so I just lobbed the other pads back in and reverted to the OE discs. No problems with them at Cadwell, the standard brakes were fine. I might give the PFM's another try, but I'm in no hurry. I've got better things to do than be sanding discs down. Righto, understood. I'd wanted to know as a PFM set-up has always been on my to get list. Are they fixable then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Righto, understood. I'd wanted to know as a PFM set-up has always been on my to get list. Are they fixable then? Mine too. And as I said, before I started having problems, they were feckin' awesome. I *was* Valentino Rossi on the brakes. But then a bit of vibration started creeping in and then it just got progressively worse with every session. I'd bedded the pads in properly on the road beforehand, I've been through enough sets of pads to know what I'm doing. Apparentley they are fixable, they need thoroughly sanding down, right back to the bare metal to remove any traces of pad deposits. right at the moment I just don't have the spare time or the inclination to do this, when the OE discs work well enough on the R1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Cast Iron discs work. End of. If you don't keep them clean or let them rust alot then yes you'll have to rub them down before use. I've never had any problems with mine, I use the same discs and pads as the red leather clad fellow over in Germany, and if its good enough for him, their good enough for me. I doubt you can get equivalent stopping power from any Brembo set-up at an equivalent cost of the sport discs that Wal does (and sticking in race pads - Bendix Carbon Matrix are best). Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will#224 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Brake tech disks, ferodo pads and castrol sbs fluid. The only option imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 correct. Yes, the PFM discs were amazing, with awesome stopping power... to begin with. But as the trackday at Donny wore on, I suffered increasing vibration and they ended up looking like this one of the discs had locked solid on its mounts and was no longer rattling around. I was using the discs with brand new Performance Friction 95 compound pads, one of the recommend options by PFM. I sanded down the discs first before fitting the new pads. I spoke to Wal Saunders @ PFM afterwards hwo was very keen to help and he asked for the photos, his opinion was I didn't sand the discs down enough beforehand. He may well be right, I only sanded them down lightly. I haven't had time since Donny to be buggering about spending hours sanding back the discs, so I just lobbed the other pads back in and reverted to the OE discs. No problems with them at Cadwell, the standard brakes were fine. I might give the PFM's another try, but I'm in no hurry. I've got better things to do than be sanding discs down. Trust me they will not get much better. I have heard numerous reasons... pads being the wrong material or been bedded in wrongly and now need sanding! the distortion is heat and you can see the blueing!!! They lock on the carrier due to the heat and then they work locking them even tighter! I have said this before and in front of someone who works/ worked for PFM! They asked what I did for a living and I told them I was an engineer and work in stuff for F1 and most other world championship classes in cars and bikes! They just walked off and didn't say a word.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_the_blat Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Quite a number of race teams use Braking Wave discs but I suppose they have the resources to change them regularly but even manufacturers supply bikes with wavey style discs. If we've established both wavey and iron discs are no good, what discs are good? I'm looking to replace the discs on my bike (Kawasaki ER-6) and I was going to go for Braking Wavey's but now I'm in 2 minds. I want something that works from cold and at road legal speeds but also want something suitable for fast road and track (mainly Cadwell) use. For what it's worth I have Braking wavy discs (and Bendix MRR pads) on my 02 RSV-R. I don't like them but that's mainly because I think they look awful (fitted by the previous owner after the OEM discs warped). They do work plenty well enough but I sometimes get a mysterious vibration on hard braking and I've never sussed out the cause. That said, millemille has told me he had exactly the same set up on his race/track RSV-R and never had any problems. I also seem to go through pads like nobody's business - maybe that's the discs but maybe it's the pads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Trust me they will not get much better. I have heard numerous reasons... pads being the wrong material or been bedded in wrongly and now need sanding! the distortion is heat and you can see the blueing!!! They lock on the carrier due to the heat and then they work locking them even tighter! I have said this before and in front of someone who works/ worked for PFM! They asked what I did for a living and I told them I was an engineer and work in stuff for F1 and most other world championship classes in cars and bikes! They just walked off and didn't say a word.. well I would have to say in PFM's defence that the discs came used, already mounted on the dymag. So I've got no idea how old they are, how many miles they've done, or whether they were in good condition or not. I really wanted the wheel but it happened to come with the discs already fitted, they came off an R6 track bike. They appeared to be ok, at least, but they might have already buggererd, I don't know. I'm sure plenty of people use PFM stuff with no problems, and I have to put my hand up and admit I only gave the discs a light sanding before fitting the new pads. So it could be all my own fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 In 7 years we have never had a problem with an ISR disc. No sanding or bedding in pads are ever needed and I have had to get somewhere between 10 and 20 sets of discs make for both the PFM superbike conversion, as the narrow pad track disc is needed with the 6 piston calipers or almost any disc would warp due to uneven heating over the whole pad track, and the more usual discs like you have. All suffer from the same problem and as Nigel will tell you the discs had started too show signs of heat problems before you noticed them and they all do the same thing... I know I can take a set of off the shelf race spec discs from almost all the manufacturers and only the PFM ones will do the same thing. Donnington is the one track I have seen a new set of discs turn to the worst juddering brake system you can imagin in one track day. Sorry but they are the one disc I will not use or sell ever. I can supply Brembo, race tech, Galfer, Braking, PVM and AP as well as ISR so it is not just a bias to ISR as i will supply all of them with equal confidence it is just the ISR ones can be custom made for any spec of wheel and offset as well as diameter. I do avoid wave discs and again this is not a brand thing as I will supply the traditional disc over a wave one regardless of the manufacturer. If ISR did waves discs I wouldn't offer them for sale. I have spent all my life in racing and started racing about 25 years ago and been involved in the engineering side of anything from Club racing to WSB with Yamaha and their R7 as well as making parts for F1 and WRC. The principles used do not really work when thermal expansion is looked at and especially the different expansion rates of the materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will#224 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Loads of lads use the beringer iron disks racing supermoto and love them. Never heard of any problems either but plenty use braking wavy and braketech now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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