Broken exhaust stud-already tried welding a nut on

[ssray]

As above, 600 bandit cylinder no1 2nd stud along

Had a mate round who welded a nut on a couple of themes but it just broke again 

What's my next step? 

I was thinking l/h drill bits starting at at around 2mm,hollow it out as much as possible then try a easy out

 

[bazzer107]

Have you tried gently heating the cylinder around the broken stud so it expands slightly around the stud and then using mole or plumbers grips try to turn it out?

[ssray]

44 minutes ago, bazzer107 said:

Have you tried gently heating the cylinder around the broken stud so it expands slightly around the stud and then using mole or plumbers grips try to turn it out?

He did that first, then tried the welding bit

[426hemi]

They can be an utter bastard to drill out on the bike, the drill always wants to wander off into the aluminium unless you can get a drill guide on it.

[EXUPDEL]

@ssray are you anywhere near Doncaster. I have a mill and can drill out studs. I have just done a head from a cbr600 i am building. Means taking the head of the bike but safer than trying to pistol drill it. If necessary can be helicoiled.

[ssray]

6 minutes ago, EXUPDEL said:

@ssray are you anywhere near Doncaster. I have a mill and can drill out studs. I have just done a head from a cbr600 i am building. Means taking the head of the bike but safer than trying to pistol drill it. If necessary can be helicoiled.

Thanks for the kind offer

I'm in Stourbridge 

I'm going to have a go first then maybe it will be a head off job

 

[Thunderbolt]

Is it standing proud?

or broken off flush?

if the welded on nut is spinning off then get more heat into it. 

[ssray]

28 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

Is it standing proud?

or broken off flush?

if the welded on nut is spinning off then get more heat into it. 

It was about 20-25mm proud, now possible 10mm

He welded the nut completely to the stud it still broke again

He's done a few bikes himself, think it's just too corroded, I have used penetrating oil a few times as well on it

[ssray]

Would heat then freeze spray on the area help? 

[Thunderbolt]

You need to get heat into the stud in the head, so welding a nut on an inch high probably didn’t get the penetration.

what welding kit are you using?

can you get oxy on the stud?

Crack-it freeze spray from Screwfix is good stuff. Try it overnight. Use lots if you think it’s too much, it isn’t.

Cycle, cooling and heating 

[ssray]

20 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

You need to get heat into the stud in the head, so welding a nut on an inch high probably didn’t get the penetration.

what welding kit are you using?

can you get oxy on the stud?

Crack-it freeze spray from Screwfix is good stuff. Try it overnight. Use lots if you think it’s too much, it isn’t.

Cycle, cooling and heating 

Thanks, haven't got access to oxy, I could possibly get a plumbers torch

Fresze spray tomorrow 

[TLRS]

Wouldn’t those heat/cooltoo little, too gradually given the mass surrounding it..?

Have you given penetrating oil the time? If you can keep it wet at the base, for a few days..?

[ssray]

6 hours ago, TLRS said:

Wouldn’t those heat/cooltoo little, too gradually given the mass surrounding it..?

Have you given penetrating oil the time? If you can keep it wet at the base, for a few days..?

Started using penetrating oil on Monday, I'm going to rig something up today drill the stud and with a plumbers torch held in the same place for a few minutes, then freeze spray into the stud then torx hammered in and twist

Using this stuff, up to - 40 (or down to even) 

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/normfest-super-crack-ultra-ice-rust-remover-400ml-NOR28944421

So my thread tommorow will be 600 bandit how hard to get the head off 

Edited March 25, 2021 by ssray

[EXUPDEL]

Lol Seems it could be inevitable.

As a matter of course I remove the head to sort exhaust studs out. I don't have any welding kit and when ever I try and pistol drill sheared bolts the drill bit just wanders and I end up having to remove the head anyway.

Might be over kill but while the head is off I will release all the valves give it a good clean, wire brush the soot and corrosion off and then lap all the valves into the seats. Might even replace the stem seal's if I have a set knocking about. Quite a bit of work but trying to pay it forward .

My OCD gene tells me it's the right thing to and the world will be a better place for it

[ssray]

46 minutes ago, EXUPDEL said:

Lol Seems it could be inevitable.

As a matter of course I remove the head to sort exhaust studs out. I don't have any welding kit and when ever I try and pistol drill sheared bolts the drill bit just wanders and I end up having to remove the head anyway.

Might be over kill but while the head is off I will release all the valves give it a good clean, wire brush the soot and corrosion off and then lap all the valves into the seats. Might even replace the stem seal's if I have a set knocking about. Quite a bit of work but trying to pay it forward .

My OCD gene tells me it's the right thing to and the world will be a better place for it

The outlaws are builders and have a big gas torch for roofing etc, going to borrow that first

[DesmoEddy]

28 minutes ago, ssray said:

The outlaws are builders and have a big gas torch for roofing etc, going to borrow that first

 

[DesmoEddy]

Weld another nut on, using enough heat so that the stud gets properly hot. Build up a well round the offending item with modelling clay or similar and fill with penetrating oil. Leave for a week. Return to the job and laugh merrily as the stud winds out.

Or...buy this head https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184672362914  and sell your fuckered one on for £40...total cost to you £24 plus a head gasket.

[bignige]

Wasn't someone in PS on about the merit of candle wax? 

Heat the stud and the wax gets drawn in. 

I definitely read it, some readers special. 

🙂

[ssray]

4 hours ago, EXUPDEL said:

 

Well that failed, dot punch in the middle, 2.5mm l/h drill to start then up to about 4 or 5 mm

Hammered a torx bit in, heat and freeze spray and...... It snapped off flush

Head off then, never mind

 

[ssray]

Just looked at parts prices, I think I'm a little out of touch head gasket £60 foa a pattern part

Thinking I'm going to remove the engine mounting bolts and angle the motor so I can drill straight, then drill it out and helicoil it

Update tomorrow, cooking a curry for dinner now

[Lewi]

10 hours ago, bignige said:

Wasn't someone in PS on about the merit of candle wax? 

Heat the stud and the wax gets drawn in. 

I definitely read it, some readers special. 

🙂

An old chap once told me about this, and it has worked a few times. 

In the past when I've had similar issues and had tried welding, i ended up biting the bullet and taking the head off and drilling it out i remember it still being a c*nt. Unsure if it was a by product of the welding but the stud was like bell metal. 

Goes without saying a decent set lf drill bits and some cutting oil doesn't go a miss

Edited March 25, 2021 by Lewi

[firebeast]

I had similar issues when taking off my 9r motors original headers a couple of years back, so I could fit the new aky system for it.. Bike was sat before me under a cover outdoors for 10yrs..

I had the front end off for proper sit down access, £35 a can penetrative stuff from a good mate on network rail😁, did that and decent heat etc more than just a few times over a week,, but was left with 3 snapped with none of the blighters moving after nuts welded on nicely an all,,, so,, I bought a set of fairly cheap screw fix drills in a set for under £20,, after folk said online they were a decent bargain,, ground studs back, proper flat, centre punch spot on with each, but started smaller than 2.5mm.,,took a good while,, using oil on the bits etc, but got 2 out clean and the other nibbled a tiny bit but helicoil worked fine..  Fuck taking the head off, it can be done, but takes a lot of time/patience, unless you buy a bunch of cobalt bits to suit (else you will never do it said a 'friend' 🤔), which is bleeding expensive.. 

I ain't got the time, money, tools or confident enough to do it the proper way mind, lol, but it worked and if needed I would happily do it again tbh.. 

[ssray]

9 hours ago, firebeast said:

I had similar issues when taking off my 9r motors original headers a couple of years back, so I could fit the new aky system for it.. Bike was sat before me under a cover outdoors for 10yrs..

I had the front end off for proper sit down access, £35 a can penetrative stuff from a good mate on network rail😁 'friend' 🤔

I ain't got the time, money, tools or confident enough to do it the proper way mind, lol, but it worked and if needed I would happily do it again tbh.. 

The big pain is the one that has gone is a tiny bit behind the downtube, that's why I'm going to get the engine loose in the frame and try and wiggle it to a better place 

[Thunderbolt]

If you have some scrap metal you can make a drilling jig/guide.

use the exhaust flange/good studs to give the sizing and centres.

one side drill to as close to stud size as you can do, other side drill to say 2mm

bolt on and use this as a drill guide

then either make another at 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm and finally 6.8mm or take the guide off and drill up a size.

 IYSWIM

[firebeast]

5 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

If you have some scrap metal you can make a drilling jig/guide.

use the exhaust flange/good studs to give the sizing and centres.

one side drill to as close to stud size as you can do, other side drill to say 2mm

bolt on and use this as a drill guide

then either make another at 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm and finally 6.8mm or take the guide off and drill up a size.

 IYSWIM

Nobody gave me that idea at the time,, me likey 👍. I did it sat on my ass by hand with a normal hss drill. Just blocked up the removed front end on the yokes for good access with bike on my Anna,,, tbh was pissed off I messed the last one up fractionally , after the joy of getting the first 2 sweet😣

 

[Thunderbolt]

1 hour ago, firebeast said:

Nobody gave me that idea at the time,, me likey 👍. I did it sat on my ass by hand with a normal hss drill. Just blocked up the removed front end on the yokes for good access with bike on my Anna,,, tbh was pissed off I messed the last one up fractionally , after the joy of getting the first 2 sweet😣

 

Being a fitter/Turner/welder/fabricator I am forever making little jigs, drill guides etc

 

[GSXR814]

If it comes to it and you want a new head let me know as i have one in the shed.

[bignige]

51 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

Being a fitter/Turner/welder/fabricator I am forever making little jigs, drill guides etc

 

Can you let me know when the house next door to you is for sale. 

🙂

[Thunderbolt]

2 minutes ago, bignige said:

Can you let me know when the house next door to you is for sale. 

🙂

Can’t happen too soon, on one side we have the wicked witch, who objected to children playing and on the other side a total füçkwit, I would rather live next to HOGGWASH.

[bignige]

8 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

Can’t happen too soon, on one side we have the wicked witch, who objected to children playing and on the other side a total füçkwit, I would rather live next to HOGGWASH.

I'd be somewhere between the two. 

😁