Chinese lathe, a viable alternative?

[John21]

Workshop unrest continues as I have been offered a slightly used Chinese lathe with an assortment of tool bits and accesories (don't have a list yet)

The lathe was used for prototyping in an almost sterile enviroment and has maybe a 100 working hours. Also it is 5 mins away from my workshop.

The machine in question is the one below:

 

 

Spec is:

 

750W

250mm x 750mm

125mm chuck

150kg

 

The machine above has cost about 3k EUR and asking price is 1.5k currently.

 

 

I was going to get an older lathe, rebuild it and gather tool bits gradualy, but selection is limited and I am not be sure if I could tell a bad old lathe from a good old lathe. 

It is going to be used for making the odd motorcycle bit and gathering dust.

 

The low hours and assortment of bits makes me think this is a good deal but not sure about the quality.

What say you?

 

 

 

 

[Thunderbolt]

That is also available as an Axminster and a Warco, amongst re badged others.

Buy it at £1k, it is at least as good as most worn out sh1te.

[porter_jamie]

as long as the slides are ok, and theres oil in the gearbox still it should be fine. certainly for a grand. re tooling, they wont give you the nice stuff,you'll end up with a load of shite i'd bet, so budget a bit and get a quick release tool post /holders and some nice tipped tools. ebay seems to be the place for all of that

[Damnthistinleg]

I don't know what availability is like over there but the UK has an ageing population of amateur engineers, so there is no shortage of cheap, high-quality, well-cared for toolroom class machinery that spilled out of all the old factories that closed down over the last few decades. A lot of school and college stuff has become available recently too and most of that has barely seen any action at all.

The cheap Chinese stuff like that one may well be good enough for what you want but they're not as nice to use as a good, older, high-quality machine. It's just finding a nice one that's the key.

Sometimes though, the fact it's not worn out and around the corner is enough to make it difficult to ignore. You could always spend a bit of time finishing it off to the standard that a decent lathe would be. Stuff like that usually responds quite well to a bit of patience and TLC.

 

 

[noely02]

I currently use a warco branded knock off Bridgeport mill, it's (so far) good as other mills I've used over the years, and the dealer is in Surrey not to far from me and has been quite helpful when I've asked about things.

[EXUPDEL]

My first choice would be a small Colchester if you have the space or a Boxford.

If I was looking at this I would be looking to replace the main spindle bearings straight away.

Depending on how much use it has had there may be wear on the bed but not enough to worry about I wouldn't have thought.

Having the best bearings you can get will at least give you a fighting chance.

Its then down to the type of work you want to do. Bushes and spacers no problem Carb needles might be asking a bit much of it

[DesmoEddy]

38 minutes ago, EXUPDEL said:

My first choice would be a small Colchester if you have the space or a Boxford.

If I was looking at this I would be looking to replace the main spindle bearings straight away.

Depending on how much use it has had there may be wear on the bed but not enough to worry about I wouldn't have thought.

Having the best bearings you can get will at least give you a fighting chance.

Its then down to the type of work you want to do. Bushes and spacers no problem Carb needles might be asking a bit much of it

I have a Boxford, but it has no gearbox so setting up for screwcutting means change gears. I would really like a Colchester Bantam or a Harrison. Remember, you can make small parts on a big lathe, but you can't make big parts on a small lathe.

I've seen a lot of good work (on YouTube) produced on the machine in the original post. I'm sure it's what Quinn Dunki is using on her Blondihacks channel (but hers is also lacking a gearbox).

[EXUPDEL]

@DesmoEddy

Yeah I have a Boxford too. I may be mistaken but from everything I have seen they are very modular in there construction. So if you could get a gearbox and lead screw from ebay you could retro fit them Might need a saddle as well with the screw cutting lever

[noely02]

https://gandmtools.co.uk/?product_cat=lathes

this place is worth a look, even contact them, they don't have all their stock on the website

[squirrel_hunter]

Its better than nothing. However there is every chance that you will quickly find the machines limits and find yourself in possession of a Colchester Triumph 2000 with a DRO, and then you need a mill to go with that, so you buy a Bridgeport. Ask me how I know...

[DesmoEddy]

1 hour ago, EXUPDEL said:

@DesmoEddy

Yeah I have a Boxford too. I may be mistaken but from everything I have seen they are very modular in there construction. So if you could get a gearbox and lead screw from ebay you could retro fit them Might need a saddle as well with the screw cutting lever

Yup....I keep looking for AUD gearboxes, but they're more than I paid for my lathe. Power crossfeed would be nice too, but I rarely find myself doing large facing cuts. I changed from a simple inverter to a variable speed drive inverter from Haydock Inverters which has been a worthwhile improvement.

[John21]

14 hours ago, Damnthistinleg said:

I don't know what availability is like over there but the UK has an ageing population of amateur engineers, so there is no shortage of cheap, high-quality, well-cared for toolroom class machinery that spilled out of all the old factories that closed down over the last few decades. A lot of school and college stuff has become available recently too and most of that has barely seen any action at all.

The cheap Chinese stuff like that one may well be good enough for what you want but they're not as nice to use as a good, older, high-quality machine. It's just finding a nice one that's the key.

Sometimes though, the fact it's not worn out and around the corner is enough to make it difficult to ignore. You could always spend a bit of time finishing it off to the standard that a decent lathe would be. Stuff like that usually responds quite well to a bit of patience and TLC.

 

 

Used lathes are not as abundant here as in the UK for sure.

After watching the used market for a few months, maybe a year, it seems that most macchines originate from the Eastern block  (Russia, Poland, Germany and the Czech Repupblic etc)  and were made some time in the 60s or 70s. Pricing is all over the place and most 1m ones are I think overpriced. There are some deals to be had for the 2m ones which seem to be plentiful, but of course no interest to me.

 

To give you an idea on what's available  at the moment:

 

 

Made in Germany, 1965, something something electrical malfunction, needs going over - 1300EUR

 

 

 

 

 

 

TUM25, 250*1000, 3 KW, Made in Poland, with accesories - 2200 EUR

 

 

 

 

 

Boxford, 220*1000, 3 phase - 2100EUR

 

 

 

 

 

Mauser, with accesories, no other information - 3200EUR

 

 

 

 

 

EMCO Maxmat Mentor 10, No info, no price! (why would you list something for sale with no price?)

 

 

Oh and this...

 

 

 

 

[John21]

13 hours ago, EXUPDEL said:

My first choice would be a small Colchester if you have the space or a Boxford.

If I was looking at this I would be looking to replace the main spindle bearings straight away.

Depending on how much use it has had there may be wear on the bed but not enough to worry about I wouldn't have thought.

Having the best bearings you can get will at least give you a fighting chance.

Its then down to the type of work you want to do. Bushes and spacers no problem Carb needles might be asking a bit much of it

Although a Colchester or a Bedford would indeed be nice to have, I am unfortunately based in Greece and these are thin on the ground.

The machine in question is a supposedly low hours one, so I would think it will be close to new. That being said replaceing the spindle bearings is an interesting idea. I am afraid that will be the start of a lengthy upgrade process though.

I wouldn't dream of tackling carb needles, but I would like to be able to make head inserts and other steel jobbies, besides the usual alu stuff and I have a suspicion that this machine will not be able to cope.

 

[EXUPDEL]

So I see 2 routes here. Buy the Chinese lathe use it find its limitations Fix the ones you can and work round the ones you can't. When you get fed up with it sell it on and get a bigger lathe

2nd option is buy the boxford. Strip and clean it Change the belts get it running and use it. They are a fundamentally good machine. Worst case the bed will be worn close to the head stock and the head bearings will rumble. This will become apparent with use very quickly. Perhaps ask to see it running before you buy.

As I mentioned before Boxford are modular The head bolts to the bed Its not integral. Same with the gear box and spur gears. So parts are reasonably replacable and available.

Also the boxford is unlikely to have been hammered the way a stronger larger more powerful lathe will have been. So even if it looks rough through use it won't have been worked hard like a big lathe.

I have a Boxford. It copes with 5 to 10 thou cuts depending on material ok. In all the years I have had it I haven't thought I want something bigger or stronger... capacity its fine for my needs

My mill on the other hand. I dream of replacing it with a bridgeport.

 

 

[Damnthistinleg]

That Bridgeport is a lovely thing, I used a few of those when I was an apprentice before I went into electrickery. The Mauser looks lovely too and has the solid look of later Dean, Smith and Grace about it.

Have you considered the possibility of shipping a machine over? If you're not planning heavy cuts in difficult material, you open the doors to all sorts of lovely little machines and the benefit of all sorts of popular accesories. I'd be happy to pallet something up in the UK and be a collection point if you sorted the shipping. I'd be more than happy to sell you some of my gear too.

If all I wanted to cut was non-ferrous and free-machining steels, I'd have stuck with my Myford ML7 and given it a thorough refurbishment. They're not industrial class machines by any stretch of the imagination but they are a very nice machine to own when upgraded and working properly, with access to an enormous back catalogue of accessories and tooling.

I've now got three lathes (late model Raglan, Myford ML7 and a Smart and Brown plain lathe), along with a Warco Minor mill/drill and an ISEL 3020 cnc gantry miller/router. Machine tools can be as addictive as bikes it seems!

[ricey3]

I'd also add that it depends on what your going to use it for.

I've had a couple of the Chinese lathes which are all made in the same two factories as the Warco and Chester stuff. The branded ones are of a slightly better quality but I've found the accuracies to be the same. 

For general stuff they work great. I made loads of stuff, cut threads no problem. The parts just take a while as you have to be slow and take light cuts. All of the slideways and tool post movements had a certain amount of backlash that you had to account for. 

 

[Damnthistinleg]

Incidentally and out of curiosity, I found that shipping a 600Kg pallet to Greece is a tad over £200, while a 1200Kg pallet is just over £300. Both are 7-10 working days.

That might open up a few avenues to decent UK machines, especially if the prices in Greece are a bit silly.

[John21]

Thanks for the input guys it clears things up quite a bit, and @Damnthistinleg thanks for looking into shipping options to Greece, it opens up a whole new selection of machines.

 

That being said, what I currently gravitate to the Chinese lathe for following reasons:

1. It is a well cared machine with true low hours (the owner is employing one of my close friends so I know the claimed use is not bollocks) and most importantly very easy for me to inspect, and bring to my workshop if I decide that I want it (literally 5mins away from my shop) . Currently between my business and my family obligations I am left with almost no time and energy for anything, let alone searching for an old lathe, arranging inspection, transport, sourcing of parts, rebuilding and quite frankly for playing with the damn machine. That's why this purchase was scheduled for the future, when hopefully things will have slacked off a bit.

2. I don't really know yet if I will like this whole machining thing as it is something completely new to me, so buying this one will give me the full experience straight away (most equipment I will need is probably there and in good nick).If for any reason I find that I am not using it, I will get most of my money back by selling it. If I gel with it, with use I will see what I like and dislike about it, how it really works, what is important and what not, so I can make a more informed decision on what to replace it with when the time comes. By then I will have the experience to choose a "good" machine, inspect take it apart and rebuild it. Seeing the price difference and sheer volume of machines in the UK, it seems that importing one from there is the thing to do.

 

So I guess taking into account all the replies form this thread the answer to my initial question "are Chinese lathes good enough to buy?", is "Yes they get the job done, yet you get what you pay for".

 

 

[DesmoEddy]

Blondihacks gets accuracy to within a couple of tenths of a thou from her very similar model, by taking care with technique and measurement. The low hours on the one you're looking at ought to mean you'll be able to get similar accuracy. Buying something which isn't already shagged is an appealing prospect. Go for it....you'll have a lot of fun.

[Swarf]

I'd go for it, we have a very similar one at work which you can get decent results with if you go steady. 👍

https://www.epple.co.uk/product/heavy-duty-precision-lathe/

[gixerboy1]

For the stuff you are doing, the Chinese one will be fine. I have a Warco sitting in my garage pretty much unused. I am used to taking a decent cut ob the machines at work, the Warco cannot do that and I get frustrated with it. It does everything else a lathe will do and at a fraction of the cost. But any turning I need I do at work. just because it is quicker and easier. (Actually, I give it to a turner to do, as I hate turning. It is dull. Everything is round and 2d)

 But for anyone looking to make one off parts, who is happy to take their time (if you are new to turning, you are better taking your time to learn the correct techniques rather than have your job spinning around the workshop when it comes out the chuck) it will be perfectly fine.

Edited December 12, 2020 by gixerboy1