DougW Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Long story, unfolding over decades.. Back in 2001 I stuffed my TL back wheel first into the back wheel of a car , impact speed probably around 20 mph (Took a bit of doing but I managed it). After that it alway seemed to be on the verge of breaking into a wobble at high speed , never did, but never confident in it. No pulling to left or right with hands off bars. About 4 years ago a keen MOT tester reckoned rear wheel out of alignment, proven with a straight edge, and he picked u the warped back disk on his brake tester. I set the chain adjusters with a vernier from the end of the swing arm, to get the wheel alignment anywhere near right I have to have one around 5mm different to the other, measured from end of arm, ignoring adjustment marks. Handling seems much better since then, but as it had new tyres at same time was never quite sure what made the difference ( Unstable feeling on dunlop race rubber and Sportsmart 2, Currently on Avon Viper Hyper something). I think the rear disk got bent in the 2001 crash, so back end has experienced some trauma. With the chain adjusters offset as above the front wheel is still about 13mm off centre. I am presuming this is significant, but have never checked this on any bike before. Assuming something is bent, I`m really hoping its not the frame. I have in my stock of spares another swing arm, provenance unknown. I am going to try swapping this over and see how the wheel alignment looks. As I have no intention of racing this bike again, and it seems ok at the pedestrian pace I am now happy with on the odd track day, and it seems fine on the road, I`m wondering how much importance to attach to it ? Chain not noticeably wearing sides of sprockets, still on original rear at 15,000KM So anyone any thoughts of whether 13 mm wheel offset is typical , bad, worth worrying about ? Where my bend could be on the TL ? I fitted an Ohlins after its rear end impact so know the arm moves freely on its bearings. No outward signs of damage on arm or frame (creasing/cracks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
426hemi Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 I would say the frame is bent and get it down to Maidstone motoliner, I wouldn’t want to trust any bike that was running out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Agreed, but I have been using it for the last 19 years and 13,000 KM like this ! Maidstone motoliner sounds like a good idea if its same with a different swinging arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
426hemi Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 It’s also got 19 years and 13,000km of fatigue on a potentially damaged frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, 426hemi said: It’s also got 19 years and 13,000km of fatigue on a potentially damaged frame. Possibly , having had it pretty much completely disassembled apart from engine out, and having found no signs of damage, is it likely to fail completely from fatigue somewhere ? With the rear impact, the only place the frame could be bent is around the swingarm pivot, which is pretty substantial on the TLR ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter30 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 get it to motoliner. I got punted off one of my R1's and it was obviously not quite right. They straightened the frame(headstock), yokes, wheels and it was the straightest R1 in the known universe thereafter and rode beautifully. Best £600 I spent on that bike! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, peter30 said: get it to motoliner. I got punted off one of my R1's and it was obviously not quite right. They straightened the frame(headstock), yokes, wheels and it was the straightest R1 in the known universe thereafter and rode beautifully. Best £600 I spent on that bike! Makes you wonder what the manufacture tolerances are to start with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 hours ago, David W said: Makes you wonder what the manufacture tolerances are to start with. Thats one of the things I am wondering, is 13mm just all the tolerances stacked up the wrong way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, DougW said: Thats one of the things I am wondering, is 13mm just all the tolerances stacked up the wrong way ? That does sound like an awful lot. Swing arm marks are infamous for being inaccurate but 13mm sounds unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, David W said: That does sound like an awful lot. Swing arm marks are infamous for being inaccurate but 13mm sounds unlikely. Its not 13mm out on the swing arm markings, front wheel is offset 13mm from centre line of rear wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, DougW said: Its not 13mm out on the swing arm markings, front wheel is offset 13mm from centre line of rear wheel. Ah right. That might just be how they are? ZRX1200’s were 20mm offset on purpose because of the chain run, tyre size and where the gearbox output shaft was. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 hours ago, David W said: Makes you wonder what the manufacture tolerances are to start with. I recall reading an article years back about factory teams preparing for the new super bike season. It reckoned the first thing the teams did when receiving a new bike to set up, was to strip it down & send the frame off to be trued up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Thanks for all the replies, current thinking is fit a different swing arm, re measure, then probably take it to maidstone motoliner when I find it still out. Edited June 1, 2020 by DougW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLRS Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 Stock frame and swingarm are both quite substantial. Wouldn’t expect anything to fail soon. However factory tolerance or not, that needs looking at! Maybe you can use the hollow swingarm axle to put it level on stands. Then fit rear axle without the wheel, see if it’s also level? Anything odd when looking at it from behind the way it sits now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 4 hours ago, TLRS said: Stock frame and swingarm are both quite substantial. Wouldn’t expect anything to fail soon. However factory tolerance or not, that needs looking at! Maybe you can use the hollow swingarm axle to put it level on stands. Then fit rear axle without the wheel, see if it’s also level? Anything odd when looking at it from behind the way it sits now? Sat on front and rear axle stands it all looks square . I haven`t done any checks of the rear wheel in the vertical plane , only checked the rear sprocket for any signs of wear on the sides, none visible, so chain run not a mile out. Thinking about it, if the chain adjusters will set the rear wheel parallel with the front wheel , just off centre from the front wheel , then the arm is bent to one side in relation to the bike centre line, a sideways force on the back in the crash would tie up with the bent rear disk. Hopefully its just the arm ! Offsetting the chain adjusters has definitely removed the unstable feeling it had before. I need to get my arse in gear and get the GSXR1100K fuel lines and a chain sorted to clear the bike bench, Its been sat there 4 years now since I took the short 750 swing arm off it and fitted a longer 1100 one along with an ohlins, and swapped the 40mm carbs for 38mm for some midrange back, just waiting for the carbs balancing. No doubt they need stripping and cleaning again. With another rideable road bike I`ll investigate the TL properly. Too many projects, too little life left ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 Why not just crash it at the front ??? Although frames and swing arms look strong they do have some flex built in, maybe the arm has "permaflex" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Evilchicken0 said: Why not just crash it at the front ??? Although frames and swing arms look strong they do have some flex built in, maybe the arm has "permaflex" Good thinking! I’ll get right on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarf Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 I'd be suspecting a bit of bending or twisting in the arm myself. Think I'd do as @TLRS suggests and check it with axles in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 9 hours ago, DougW said: Good thinking! I’ll get right off it. Shirley ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLRS Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 Pretty sure the cases are split along the centreline of the bike, fwiw. If the rear wheel is out vertically I imagine sprocket doesn’t suffer too much? If the rear wheel is vertical and pointing straight forward.. but offset. Then I ought to be able to give you measurements from the TLS arm.. ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 Always looked at the TLR frame as pretty indestructible, it's a piece of engineering in its own right (bridge engineering) Be interesting to see what you find, if it is the swingarm, atleast you know you can get a stretched arm like our American cousins, and some flames on the fairings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougW Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Weeell, a friend of mine who has built a few frames and is generally quite clued up , reckoned the TL wheelbase should have been 1440 mm and the engine a bit higher in the frame to get it to handle properly on track. But anyway, about these flames..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLRS Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Aftermarket frames did put the lump further forward. The bakker barracuda racebike had tire marks on the valve cover. With the alignment issues, who cares about the wheelbase.. streetbike too no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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