SP1Catcher Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I want to race a 2 stroke in a Pre 89 post classic race series. I was looking at buying a 88 Honda RS250 but have been warned that the maintenance costs might be way too much for me. The alternative might be to get a MC18 NSR and convert it to a race bike. Has anyone any experience of racing a MC18? Can anyone offer advice is the NSR a viable racer, what are maintenance/rebuild costs like? Any constructive advice on Pre 89 Honda 250 race bikes would be most welcome. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgtkr1 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 no, not personally but know of one that races with derby pheonix. the nsr's are a bit specialist but are very much a racer with lights. the mc18 been a near rs250 compared to other models, the most racer like model of them all. in all honesty prob the best one too race as its easy to get full power, cheaper than the 21/28 and still a very nice capable bike. others to look at are the kr1 or vj21 rgv. IF it was made in the right year. kr1 again, a bit specialist for racing really depending on where you are in the world. theres a few quick ones in the uk, one in particular but has had 12yrs constant development and is a proper missile. easily the fastest prod 250 in britian. i also race one (soon to be). again heavily tuned/modiofied and youd have to know your bikes to tell its a kr1. the beauty of a formula class. its hard to really suggest anything as i dont know the basic regs of the intended class. i suspect changing forks/wheels may be out of the question? if so get the best near std bike and that will be the nsr(mc18) what other bikes are you gonna be up against and whats the cc limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayRC3045 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 frontyyys the man to ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intra Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The RS is the racebike.Get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 We're talking chalk and cheese here mateys- You cannot compare an RS250 (I raced one, an ex Bill Smith TT bike) and a MC18. The MC 18 will feel, and is dead slow against the real thing. You're right on one thing though, the running costs on a RS are pretty horrendous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I would think the non-rebuildable crank(s) for the RS250's would be enough to put anyone off (I did to me...) and that's before you get to the scarcity of spare parts these days(?) I thought TZ's were supposed to be better supported? Try askin' Coose(?) G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgtkr1 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 ok, cant REALLY compare a proddy bike to a real racer but if any of the proddy bikes were to be like a gp250 then the mc18 is nearest to its rs cousin, in f3 trim. an f3 nsr can potentiolly be as powerful if not more so than an rs of the same vintage. out of the tz or rs, id say the tz is the easier option re parts availability ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP1Catcher Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Thanks for the replies. It would seem that the TZ is the bike to have they seem to make up the Pre 89 two strokes in the field.They are up against up to 600cc bikes the usual suspects NC23's FZR400's and CBR600. I'm a die hard two stroke romantic and would love to get my hands on a true GP bike. I've nothing against the TZ but just love the RS. I think I've got to go with my head though and rule it out on cost and spares. Shame as its such a classic the 87 bike being something special I feel. I'm just surprised that there are no NSR's in the class I'm going to have to do some more research before committing myself. Thanks again for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si.likes.guiness Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 heres my 2 pence worth go with the nsr everytime as they are a cracking bike.from experience the cost of running the rs's can get out of control a bit as they have shorter intervals to change ring and cranks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Here's me on my 87 RS250 at Mallory in I think either 97 or 98 racing in the MRO 250 championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP1Catcher Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 You are making me Jealous. Great bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fontyyy Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 We're talking chalk and cheese here mateys- You cannot compare an RS250 (I raced one, an ex Bill Smith TT bike) and a MC18. The MC 18 will feel, and is dead slow against the real thing. You're right on one thing though, the running costs on a RS are pretty horrendous! Depends how tuned the NSR is, in full F3 HRC monty mode an '88 NSR250mc18 is dripping RS stuff, pistons, crank, reeds, all the ignition etc. If you're feeling rich there is also an HRC frame, swing arm, forkset, rear shock etc. Problem is then it has an RS style service schedule and has cost you far more than a real RS! My NSR is '89, the '88 one looks the same but has an older style ignition with a seperate CDI and PV brain. StephenRC45 has built HRC spec ones with both style ignitions, if memory serves me right he got a fraction over 70bhp out of the early ignition and about 74bhp with the later type, both on pump unleaded. For comparision a stock '91 RS on the same dyno makes 72bhp on 100% Avgas (which may be illegal in your race series). Back in the world of people who don't think 100 miles is reasonable life for a set of piston rings you could easily and quite cheaply get an '88 NSR, get to tuned to make around 65bhp and run it all season on the same rings and pump fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP1Catcher Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Back in the world of people who don't think 100 miles is reasonable life for a set of piston rings you could easily and quite cheaply get an '88 NSR, get to tuned to make around 65bhp and run it all season on the same rings and pump fuel. Thanks for the info fontyyy thats spot on. I'm defiantly thinking the NSR is the way to go. The pre89 series is all about keeping the bikes we love running and racing. As much as I like the RS about one outing a year would be all I could afford and thats not really running the bike. You've done a great job with your bike it looks awesome. Do you know the weight of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fontyyy Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 No idea, the '88 NSR was 126kg dry as a roadbike, so anything running a fibreglass fairing and no road kit is going to be sub 120kg easily. Make sure you stay at '88 if '89 bits are banned, '88 NSR's are called R2j or R4j, '89 ones are called r5k or r6k, the '89 ones have significantly different crank, cases and ignition. Pre '88 bikes are mc16s and need load of work as well as later bits to make decent power. Though the engine out of any post '87 NSR will fit straight in and I'd doubt anyone would know or care, all NSR engine numbers start mc16, you'd also have to take the seat off to check the ignition wasn't from a later model, the '89 one is better (and arguably best), '90 and '91 (mc21) would also be an option with the correct loom. No idea how much you could get away with or if you want to push your luck, most scrutineers checking my bike think it's an RS and I get asked several times a year by guys running 250 GP bikes if they can run their GP250's in F400 too! The best history page on the NSR is here. Best site here. Tons of info, tuning tips, good forum etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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