Majik Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I bought my Suzuki Goose just over a month ago, and the guy I bought it off warned me she could be a pain to start occassionally. She roared into life for him, and for the first week or so she was fine for me. However, she got progressively worse, to the point where I was turning her over for getting on for 60 seconds before she kicked in. I put a new CR8EK plug in last week, and it seemed to improve things a little bit, but three days after that, following a nigh on 100 mile run, less than an hour after, she refused to start. I wore the battery down trying to get the bstrd going and I resorted to violence out of frustration. When I plucked the old plug out, I got the impression from the colour she was runnig rich. She's got a nearly straight through exhaust system, but with the standard airbox. Oh, and she pops on roll off all the time. I've got a free flow air filter winging it's way to me, with my limited technical knowledge making an assumption that I need to match up with the exhaust. However, what on earth would cause her to be such a pig to start? What should I look at here? When I put the filter on, is there a DIY way to set the air/fuel mixture up (it's a Mikuni 40mm). Essentially, help!!!! I love this bike and don't want to beat the snot out of it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 singles tricky to start - you have my sympathy there sir. oh yes. try a bigger hammer. sorry does the choke actually er.. choke? next time it WILL not start, try a squirt of brake cleaner or easy start down the intake. if it fires, then it's probably fuel related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Hmm. Good idea. For my own reference, what does the easy start actually DO to the fuel/air mixture? I can only assume the choke chokes, as the revs rise when it's running with the choke on. Is that too simplistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 dunno - if there no fuel getting there, the e/start is v volatile and will light easily. i spent half an hour yanking the strimmer cord (sounds like a euphenism) the other day - one squirt of brake cleaner and it was off. check the compression too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Thanks bro - I'll report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hmm. Good idea. For my own reference, what does the easy start actually DO to the fuel/air mixture? I can only assume the choke chokes, as the revs rise when it's running with the choke on. Is that too simplistic? Chokes don't normally choke these days. There is normally a plunger that lifts and opens up an extra fuel passage. It also tends to open up an extra air feed to raise the idle speed and prevent stalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 If you've got popping on the over-run you could well be running lean on the pilot jet - if the carb has been jetted the previous owner may only have doen the main. This might explain the reluctance to start as well... Yep, definitely. It could also be highly likely to be a blocked or partially blocked pilot jet. Sometimes these are near impossible to clear properly without damaging the jet. It's usually best to replace with a new jet of the original size before trying any other sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Oo! That sounds very interesting. *Idiot's question alert* I've got more chance of a quickie from Jolie than finding anything online regarding the pilot jet size, so is there any way of finding it from the jet iself? I intend to take the carb apart on Thursday, so this would help a bunch. Second to this, where the hell would I get Mikuni jets from online? Cheers! Majik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Oo! That sounds very interesting. *Idiot's question alert* I've got more chance of a quickie from Jolie than finding anything online regarding the pilot jet size, so is there any way of finding it from the jet iself? I intend to take the carb apart on Thursday, so this would help a bunch. Second to this, where the hell would I get Mikuni jets from online? Cheers! Majik A workshop manual or a Suzuki dealer may give you that info. Then you'll need to be figuring out which style of Mikuni pilot jet first before you try and order. When you take it to bits compare it to the pictures here. After that you should be able to get the right one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Thanks Monkey. Funnily enough, I think I've worked it out - I've got some info from various areas, including jets. It's a #42.5 Pilot apparently... Here's another question though - a sheet I've been given says that the spark plug gap should be 0.85mm - on a CR8EK. This seems big - does it sound right? It's definitely backed up from a few sources though. Could too small a plug gap give me these kinds of problems?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawafookin636 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Sounds fair. Plug gap on CR9EH is 0.8 - 0.9 and I've had no problems with them. Not sure about your problems though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Thanks Monkey. Funnily enough, I think I've worked it out - I've got some info from various areas, including jets. It's a #42.5 Pilot apparently... Here's another question though - a sheet I've been given says that the spark plug gap should be 0.85mm - on a CR8EK. This seems big - does it sound right? It's definitely backed up from a few sources though. Could too small a plug gap give me these kinds of problems?? You are halfway there then! You may even be able to just buy it from a Suzuki dealer. If they don't do one for the Goose then the DR350 one might be the same? While you have the float bowl off, try to locate the starter jet and give it a good blast through to make sure it is clear. These are usually pressed into the bowl or the brass tube that feeds up to the 'choke' mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Right - an update in the hope of some sage-like advice. Firstly - the choke cable was absolutely knckered. New one on the way to me now (it was not closing the choke valve/brass thing completely). Should be here today, actually... Second - I've put a free flow cone filter on her now, and can now get her started as long as I do two things: 1) The needle MUST be on the bottom of the five slots (i.e. it's richest). Won't start in any other position. 2) I turn her over for three-five seconds on 30-60 percent throttle, and then quickly back down to no throttle, keeping the starter button pressed and she roars into life and ticks over fine. (tickover is 1300 rpm) Thirdly, she seems to rev fine all the way up to about 5500-6000 revs, then just loses power. Standard jet is 125. I've tried a 130, 135 and a 140 and it only seems to raise the max revs slightly. (Redline is 8000rpm) Air/fuel screw is currently at 2 turns out - she starts anywhere between 1 turn and three turns out, but seems happiest ticking over at this. No physical way to adjust this whilst running, despite my ingenuity. I'm hoping some carb sages are going to shed some light on this. Would the standard pilot jet be THAT effected by the changes, and how does it explain the bad starting before the filter change? I've cleaned out the carb, by the way, so I know there's no blockages going on here, and surely it would be a bugger to tick over if the pilot was dodgy? *Bangs head against wall* But I've learnt SO much about carbs in the past few weeks, which is a good thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Right - an update in the hope of some sage-like advice. Firstly - the choke cable was absolutely knckered. New one on the way to me now (it was not closing the choke valve/brass thing completely). Should be here today, actually... Second - I've put a free flow cone filter on her now, and can now get her started as long as I do two things: 1) The needle MUST be on the bottom of the five slots (i.e. it's richest). Won't start in any other position. 2) I turn her over for three-five seconds on 30-60 percent throttle, and then quickly back down to no throttle, keeping the starter button pressed and she roars into life and ticks over fine. (tickover is 1300 rpm) Thirdly, she seems to rev fine all the way up to about 5500-6000 revs, then just loses power. Standard jet is 125. I've tried a 130, 135 and a 140 and it only seems to raise the max revs slightly. (Redline is 8000rpm) Air/fuel screw is currently at 2 turns out - she starts anywhere between 1 turn and three turns out, but seems happiest ticking over at this. No physical way to adjust this whilst running, despite my ingenuity. I'm hoping some carb sages are going to shed some light on this. Would the standard pilot jet be THAT effected by the changes, and how does it explain the bad starting before the filter change? I've cleaned out the carb, by the way, so I know there's no blockages going on here, and surely it would be a bugger to tick over if the pilot was dodgy? *Bangs head against wall* But I've learnt SO much about carbs in the past few weeks, which is a good thing... Have you renewed the pilot jet yet? This would be at the top of my list. It sounds like you may also have a worn needle jet (happens a lot on big singles) and maybe needle too. Was it struggling at high revs before? Taking off the airbox and fitting a clamp on filter has probably mucked up your jetting. I would go back to standard, by changing the induction setup you are creating more problems rather than solving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Welcome back No sturggle at high revs before, but at least I can start her now... Renew the pilot jet to standard or should I be increasing it's size, do you think? Apologies for being dim - I know exactly what a needle is now, but where is the needle jet? The only jets I can find are the pilot, main and the air/fuel screw. Cheers SM - this info is SO appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Welcome back No sturggle at high revs before, but at least I can start her now... Renew the pilot jet to standard or should I be increasing it's size, do you think? Apologies for being dim - I know exactly what a needle is now, but where is the needle jet? The only jets I can find are the pilot, main and the air/fuel screw. Cheers SM - this info is SO appreciated. I'd start with the standard size and work from there.... Start from a known quantity that has never been blocked, damaged, etc. The jet needle is the male part of what is effectively a variable size jet.... The needle jet is the female part. On some carbs it is not a servicable item but on most it will either unscrew from the body or drop out with a gentle tapping from a drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Ah! Gotcha. I'm hitting it with vengeance tonight, so I'll keep y'all updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Everything back to standard. New choke cable fitted. Adjusted the valves (badly - finding TDC is a bitch!). Didn't have the original airbox with me (it's at the missus' place). Got her started, but there is a hole of 2000 revs between 5500 and 7500 where it takes great patience and holding her mid throttle to get her to rise. WOT - engine dies. Don't know whether she's choking or drowning though. Agh!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Pigdog Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 try pulling the choke on when it starts to struggle to see the effect.i would normally expect to turn the pilot screws out half a turn to richen it up if it has pipe and powerfilter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I know it may go against the ethos of doing it all yourself but i think a couple of hours on a dyno with an operator who knows his way round a carb would sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm resisting taking it to a dyno, aside from the cost of it all, it's getting to be a principle now! This is the simplest bike in the world - I should be able to do this! Plus, the 150 or whatever it'll cost me is a powder coat and paint job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm resisting taking it to a dyno, aside from the cost of it all, it's getting to be a principle now! This is the simplest bike in the world - I should be able to do this! Plus, the 150 or whatever it'll cost me is a powder coat and paint job! Grrr... Unless there is something obviously worn/broken and no air jets are blocked, I'm still thinking you ought to get a new, unworn needle and needle jet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy_tom Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Just coming in from the outside here; 40mm is a big carb for a 350, that's the same bore carb as the DR650s ran. There's was a CV and I can't think of any reason why yours wouldn't be a CV also. Running a pod filter with a CV carb will cause problems, as the CV needs to have still air to pull from. My recommendation would be to fit your stock airbox, with a new filter, a new pilot jet, and stock settings on your carb. The mixture screw only affect the mixture at idle. You can try this out by adjusting it as the engine is running and listening to the revs rise and fall. I'm NOT talking about the idle knob here before anyone says anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well, in a stunning act of customer service, Suzuki New Zealand have replied to my begging email, and enclosed the full specs to set up the carb back to stock! Big props to them for doing this. It now means I know the model number of the carb (BST40) as well as all the standard settings and parts. WooHoo!!!! I'm going to order a needle, needle jet and pilot jet methinks... All the specs are here (I have geekily PDF'd them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Just coming in from the outside here; 40mm is a big carb for a 350, that's the same bore carb as the DR650s ran. There's was a CV and I can't think of any reason why yours wouldn't be a CV also. Running a pod filter with a CV carb will cause problems, as the CV needs to have still air to pull from. My recommendation would be to fit your stock airbox, with a new filter, a new pilot jet, and stock settings on your carb. The mixture screw only affect the mixture at idle. You can try this out by adjusting it as the engine is running and listening to the revs rise and fall. I'm NOT talking about the idle knob here before anyone says anything. Good point.... I can't see the idea behind using a 40mm carb... The DR350 uses a 33mm CV carb as far as I know! It seems hard to believe that the Goose is in a high enough state of tune to justify a 40mm carb but you'd hope Suzuki know what they are doing there.....? - Or at least to the extent that the bike should start without drama! The specs will be handy for checking the carb settings anywhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Small update - she is now starting reguarly with the new choke cable. This is major progress! Airbox nicked back from missus last night and I shall be throwing it back intonight to see if the lack of revs is down to the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Thursday was a day full of grimy hands and shouting in the garage. However, a solution (of sorts) has been obtained. After the new choke cable was put in, she was starting reasonably reguarly, but still needs some pretty long turn over to get going. As for the revs maxing out at 5500-6000? Replacing the original airbox cured this completely. WooHoo! Of a kind... See, the whole point of this was to not only release some extra ponies, but also to get rid of the bloody ugly thing so I could take the side panels off, relocate the battery from under the seat and get a lovely looking trellis frame effect posing off the back of the engine and the space under the seat. So although she's now going fine, I'm trying to decipher why the cone filter prevent her reving out. I'm making an educated guess that it's due to the way the CV carb works and it needing some kind of "still air" or pressure to raise the diaphragm. Help? I want rid of this bloody airbox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Thursday was a day full of grimy hands and shouting in the garage. However, a solution (of sorts) has been obtained. After the new choke cable was put in, she was starting reasonably reguarly, but still needs some pretty long turn over to get going. As for the revs maxing out at 5500-6000? Replacing the original airbox cured this completely. WooHoo! Of a kind... See, the whole point of this was to not only release some extra ponies, but also to get rid of the bloody ugly thing so I could take the side panels off, relocate the battery from under the seat and get a lovely looking trellis frame effect posing off the back of the engine and the space under the seat. So although she's now going fine, I'm trying to decipher why the cone filter prevent her reving out. I'm making an educated guess that it's due to the way the CV carb works and it needing some kind of "still air" or pressure to raise the diaphragm. Help? I want rid of this bloody airbox... Well done on getting it going! I'd make sure you are happy with the way it works before ditching the airbox this time. You may be lucky and get the CV carb working minus the airbox by simply using larger main jets... Personally if you are going down the no airbox road I'd fit a proper slide carb and ditch the CV carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majik Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hmm. How large is large though? I took the mina from a 125 to a 140 with the cone filter in and it wouldn't rev out - am I being too subtle here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy_tom Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Pleased you are getting somewhere. The general rule is not to go more than 15% bigger with main jets otherwise you may as well go up a carb size. You may find you need to go all the way up to your 15% but your economy will suffer. If you are thinking about changing carbs, then look at the Mikuni TM40 pumper carb, though I'm still surprised at the factory fitment of a 40mm carb on a 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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