ZX-7R brakes

[Ocho]

As the title suggests, my brakes are pap.

Standard Tokico 6-pots, braided custom lines, and EBC HH pads.

Anything resembling hard braking sends the lever flying towards the bar; the hotter it gets, the more pap they are.

Aah, sounds like they need bleeding, you say.

It's impossible to bleed them any more effectively than I have done. I even took the whole damn system off, put it on a bench, tapped the calipers with a mallett, and ran about 5 litres of juice through them. Then, took it to a mechanic, who said they're not gonna get any better than that.

What other calipers fit? Any other solutions? Should I just whip out my ex-student credit card and get some monoblocs?

[Liamo]

This has been discussed to death here, have a search around, there's a few people working on various solutions.

Some Suzuki 4 pot calipers will bolt straight on, not sure which ones tho.

[smugbastard]

Have you tried the laggy band /tywrap trick?????

[tootall]

Have you tried the laggy band /tywrap trick?????

Thats to constuct a kinda catapult to fire the useless pieces of shite out of the window with yeah?

[lorenzo]

OK, the list goes (and others, feel free to add to it):

GSXR 600 SRAD

GSXR 600 (maybe 750 too) k1 to k3

Some Bandit 1200's

TL1000S's (not R's)

Some oil cooled gixers

Some RGV250's

Various mid-late 90's Triumphs (badged as triumph, made by tokico)

All straight swaps. Some are Tokicos, some are Nissins, depending on which bike you go for.

[David W]

Try a new Master Cylinder first.

The 6-pots are generally OK if they are well maintained. When was the last time they were stripped down and the pistons lubricated?

[Ocho]

Try a new Master Cylinder first.

The 6-pots are generally OK if they are well maintained. When was the last time they were stripped down and the pistons lubricated?

I took the calipers apart in the uni workshop at the beginning of last year, and serviced them. A couple of the pistons were sticky, but it didn't make a lot of difference when they were blown out and serviced.

Since then, I've replaced the caliper seals, replaced the master cylinder, replaced the brake lines, bled and bled (both brake fluid and blood), and got someone to service my master cylinder.

Now, I'm no mathemagician, but that only leaves the calipers.

Looks like it's the last port of call.

I don't particularly want to go down that route two weeks before the trackday, because if something goes wrong, I'll be left with no brakes; this'll have to be afterwards.

It's not like I don't know what I'm doing with the brakes either, they're just...pap.

[kwakbiker]

Id still be betting on sticking pistons, did you completely clean out the seal grooves before fitting the news ones in, takes forever but its the only way to get em back to working nice. Just waiting on a mate ot get an ultrasonic cleaning tank and gonna give him mine, takes about 20 mins then to clean the bloody things up

[Strappy]

did you completely clean out the seal grooves before fitting the news ones in, takes forever but its the only way to get em back to working nice.

And did you check that the fluid seals went in the right way around?

I changed all seals using a seal kit from Wemoto (including the two on the fluid channels between the caliper halves), changed the master caliper seals, fitted new braided lines and wrapped PTFE tape around the bleed nipples to prevent any air leaking through the threads and the brakes were excellent.[1]

Failing that, look for a pair of Nissin 6-pots from the 7RR; available second-hand about as often as I trip over gold bars and priced accordingly but probably as good as you're going to get on the standard fork bottoms.

Might be a silly question but have you checked whether the pads have glazed?

[1] Well, they were once I'd discovered that I hadn't tightened one of the caliper banjos properly, which was why I couldn't bleed the lines.

[David W]

Since then, I've replaced the caliper seals, replaced the master cylinder, replaced the brake lines, bled and bled (both brake fluid and blood), and got someone to service my master cylinder.

What did you replace the m/cyl with?

My ZRX1100 had the same calipers, and with a Brembo M/Cyl they were very good.

[budda]

What did you replace the m/cyl with?

My ZRX1100 had the same calipers, and with a Brembo M/Cyl they were very good.

Yes Dave yer right, the 7r that I had years ago was a pampered thing and the brakes were ace, the one I have just restored on the other hand has'nt had such a charmed life and the brakes are awful.

Its now got some old gsxr750 4pots on and they are a lot better but I'm gonna replace the M/C.

[Ocho]

Nope, suspected glazed pads but that ain't it either.

I replaced the master cyl with one from an '02 7R- stupid, I know, but that one's been rebuilt.

Does anyone know if Anglesey is a heavy braking circuit?

These badboys suffer hard at Pembrey, and I had to cut the chicane at Llandow before.

And no, I will not brake earlier.

[chancho196]

So I take it that the brakes are good when they are cold but, as you get them hot and possibly boil the fluid, the lever is coming back to the bar? Maybe you need different discs and pads. If they only fail when they get hot, surely it's not going to make any difference what caliper/hose/cylinder combination you are using.

What do the race bike mechanics on here recommend?

[Ocho]

So I take it that the brakes are good when they are cold but, as you get them hot and possibly boil the fluid, the lever is coming back to the bar? Maybe you need different discs and pads. If they only fail when they get hot, surely it's not going to make any difference what caliper/hose/cylinder combination you are using.

What do the race bike mechanics on here recommend?

Actually, it's pretty difficult to determine the exact point at which my brakes shit themselves.

Sometimes, when it's cold, they'll just make a SKRRR noise but the bike might as well still be accelerating; other times, it's when they get hot.

The discs are fairly new as well, and they've been checked by a mechanic.

[budda]

You are right mate the the 7r brakes are poor once they have seen a few winters and the MC has a bore that only just copes with the six pot calipers.

However if you fit some 4 pots from a gsxr srad for example (smaller surface area for the MC to actuate) then use some quality pads (I find Bendix to be excellent) and new fluid you will have some awesome brakes, I would highly recommend a Brembo MC though certainly worth the cash = no fade!!

If its any concellation I had to replace the entire system on a 2 yr old zx10r.............

[Ocho]

Hmmm...

The Brembo MC would be nice.

I'll get the calipers whipped off, pistons popped and cleaned after the next trackday I reckon.

I don't have time test things before it, and if anything goes wrong/need any parts ordering it'll push me past the date..!

Do the smaller Nissin 4-pots have any detrimental effect on the braking at all?

[budda]

Hmmm...

The Brembo MC would be nice.

I'll get the calipers whipped off, pistons popped and cleaned after the next trackday I reckon.

I don't have time test things before it, and if anything goes wrong/need any parts ordering it'll push me past the date..!

Do the smaller Nissin 4-pots have any detrimental effect on the braking at all?

No mate they are better.

[halfmanhalfninja]

Hi mate,

Assuming you're running standard discs, junk the EBC pads, they're crap. Standard pads are best.

Or, for a cheap upgrade, fit early Bandit 1200 4-pot Nissins (apparantly SRAD 600 & 750 calipers fit too, but I've never tried them). I paid £60 delivered for a pair of calipers (Ebay) in very good nick. They fit without modification, dont corrode like the Tokico's and they are WAY cheaper to rebuild if necessary. Plus they just brake better.

Hope this helps mate

[budda]

Thats it.

[eastendpete]

get the adapters that i have, i put a link in my thread in readers rides. that'll cure it, the standard tokicos are shit. they used to be good but now theyre not. unless you want to clean brakes all the time and change seals at about 50 plus quid a go, than change. its the only way. i reseached this to death. see my thread for info.

click here for thread

[Ocho]

Brilliant- thanks a lot for the replies everyone!

The early Bandit 12 4-pots: would I be able to use the same braided lines on them?

Or are they different in that way?

Sorry for the 100 questions, trying to make sure I've got all the bases covered.

[bignige]

i dont remember anyone moaning about these 6 pote when they were new.

its got to be a maintenance issue.

brembo is your friend.

;-)

[lorenzo]

The early Bandit 12 4-pots: would I be able to use the same braided lines on them?

I've just fitted some to my zx7r and used the old hoses no problem. I can't remeber though if the banjo bolts are a different thread or not, I've got a small stash of stainless ones that I just dip in and out of, the nissins are the fine thread, I can't remember what the tokicos are.

[halfmanhalfninja]

My braided lines went on no probs....they are just a touch too long but nowt to worry about.

I had another thought about this...are those EBC pads sintered (will have a copper-like colour to them if they are) or organic?

I used to sell industrial disc brakes for a living, we did shitloads of test on the relationship between various pads and disc materials.

Your problem is heat - sintered pads are very good at conducting heat from the disc into the caliper...not always a good thing, as you know! Organic pads act as a heat insulator, keeping much more of the heat in the discs, where the air can take it away. It may highlight a problem with your discs, but maybe its a cheaper way of solving your problem?