wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Okay, i need help. Bike will not start for me, Its not priming when i turn the ignition... Now, the bike had not been started in 3 months due to bad weather. Ive changed the plugs and air filters, hoping it would've started and i could carry on with oil change etc but no, nothing...ten i remembered the whirring noise when the key is turned..it isn't happening. I've done a search on the net, and its thrown up a few things..Fuses, checked all i could find down the left handside of the bike, all in good nick. Bike in neutral, kill switch in the run position. stand down. The next thing i've to check is the tilt/angle sensor ( thats happening this eve) but can anyone think of anything else that it might be.? The battery is charged, there are no other issues as far as i know. Its just the bike is not priming, any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strappy Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Bike will not start for me, Its not priming when i turn the ignition... I didn't think that was priming anything, I thought it was the exhaust valve going through a self-test routine. Not sure, although if it wasn't working I'd have thought you'd get an error code on the dash. The next thing i've to check is the tilt/angle sensor When I put my battery back in after charging there was a small white plastic thing that looks like a white connector block that had come off it's mount. It's just behind the positive terminal, IIRC. I put it back on when I saw it and first thought was that it was a tilt sensor, though I don't know that for sure. Only other thing coming to mind is to clean out the sidestand switch; I've heard of them sticking before. Are you getting anything on the dash? Is the rev needle sweeping through its arc when you turn on? Are the lights coming on ok and is the headlight switching off when you thumb the starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hows the battery? Are the headlamps lit? main fuse OK? main fuse is located behind the battery on the RH side Battery has been charged regularly because the bike hasn't been starting ( but i may get a new one because all the charging may have done damage) Headlamps all light up. Main fuse 30amp is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I didn't think that was priming anything, I thought it was the exhaust valve going through a self-test routine. Not sure, although if it wasn't working I'd have thought you'd get an error code on the dash. Could be exhaust valve, i just presumed it was the fuel pump. No error codes. When I put my battery back in after charging there was a small white plastic thing that looks like a white connector block that had come off it's mount. It's just behind the positive terminal, IIRC. I put it back on when I saw it and first thought was that it was a tilt sensor, though I don't know that for sure. White connecter block, im not sure there is one there on mine Tilt sensor is in the front cowl between the headlamps. Only other thing coming to mind is to clean out the sidestand switch; I've heard of them sticking before. Will do Are you getting anything on the dash? Is the rev needle sweeping through its arc when you turn on? Are the lights coming on ok and is the headlight switching off when you thumb the starter? Nothing out of the ordinary on the dash. Needles is doing its thang. Lights coming on ok, but i don't know if the lights are flicking when i thumb the starter, will check Its all my fault for, 1: not buying an optimate 2: not starting the bike 3: not spending/having enough time with the bike. i think i've only put two thousand miles on it since i got it...poor bike Cheers lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 OK then, does the engine turn over when the starter is pressed? If not, does the starter relay click when the button is pressed? Have you tried connecting the battery directly to the starter (would indicate a dodgy reun switch or starter relay)? Engine is turning, over..I mean the bike sounds like it wants it wants to start..its going chh chhh chhh chhh ch. Tried connecting the battery to the starter, how ? I wouldn't know how. edit: Sometimes when i used to go start the bike, it wouldn't turn over first time, there would be a click from somewhere, it would happen once or twice then fire Zak, i'll print out those two pages from above, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 So the engine's turning over but not catching? Are the plugs leads connected? Maybe old fuel if you've not run it for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 So the engine's turning over but not catching? Are the plugs leads connected? Maybe old fuel if you've not run it for a while? Plugs are most definitley connected, big long coil yokes you have to push onto the tops...did it meself ( so i could've done it wrong ) Syphoned all the petrol out, three and a half litres of new stuff in. I'm gonna take the fuel rail off and see if the injectors spray when i turn over the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 OK...if the engine is turning over, all lights work, dash is working, then it is down to fuel or spark. if you have changed the sparkplugs, then I would wager that you have knocked something or disconnected a wire under the tank. Take the tank cover off again and lift the tank. Anything unplugged? Check the connectors coming from the fuel pump....all in order? is the FI light giving any blink codes when the key is turned on? Try the FI trouble shooting as below (use a paper-clip or piece of wire to bridge the terminals in the Data Link Connector): Ill take it all apart later and go again. The only thing that stays on, but goes off after a few engine turns is the red light in the right corner off the dash, oil, oil pressure light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredie Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 might be the stator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 might be the stator The bikes had the update, but it might be that. ( Even though i don't really know what the stator is, or where it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredie Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 the 1st stators go on them all the time . still got warranty?? cause honda should replace it. alot of the batches from the factory had this problem.i had it done .you push start it to get it running .IF its not too damaged ?? edit - you can push start it down a hill.its a job for the worshop .come too a few hundred$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 the 1st stators go on them all the time . still got warranty?? cause honda should replace it. alot of the batches from the factory had this problem.i had it done .you push start it to get it running .IF its not too damaged ?? push start no go, the whirry noise at the start is no whirry no more. Honda Ireland told me the work had been done on the stator and actuator, but the bike didn't have the punch mark at the vin, but they assured me it was done......so it probably hasn't been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredie Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 so what now ?? a 2nd stator like wtf?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well, i'll go through everything i can, and if all thats a no go...Fire will meet the Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredie Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 charge the baterie. push start it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran9r Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yep I'd think about the pump too...found a wiring diagram for it -it'd be worth finding the specific fuse for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 This forum rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 If the pump is not priming when the key is turned, then the problem is related to that. The stator issue sounds like a red herring at this stage. Until the pump pressurises the injector system then you can push it until you are blue in the face. If you have changed the plugs then you will have had to lift the tank. The fact that the pump is not priming is more than likely related to something that has happened during the plug change. I would check the fuel pump connections (details below): Thats another good point Zak, problem is, i can't remember if it was priming before i lifted the tank/changed the plugs etc. (although, i don't think it was) And yes Tom, this Forum doess indeed Rock. It Rocks out with its Cock out* * just waiting for Wavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredie Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 you could have some lepricorns in the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 you could have some lepricorns in the tank Its on the list to check for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Any luck, Wes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Any luck, Wes? Nai, and it turns out its a ghost bike, let me explain. T'other night i broke the eyelet that connects the positive wire to the battery. I forgot about it this morning and went out to the bike just to see if there was any change, and to see if there were any warning lights or error codes etc. Ignition on, the dash did its sweep, the lights...er lighted up and i thumbed the starter, it turned over Its only got the negative connected! . I only realised this when Zak pm'd me this morn. I will fix the eylet tonight, take the bike off the paddock stand ( maybe it'll reset summat being at its standard angle) and go at it again. I will check the angle sensor. clean the stand connectors, basically go through the list on the pages Zak posted, if thats still a no go i'll take the air box off again and inspect everything, connections, tubes etc. What do we reckon on a new battery, worth it? oh, and i've one allen head bolt i cannot remove from the left hand lower fairing, i lamped flat head screwdrivers into it, torx heads, drowned it in wd40 and it still wont budge, what do we reckon, drill it and break the little fucker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smugbastard Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Right listen carefully i will say this only once! the way that FI works is this! Turn on ignition,fuel pump primes ie pressurises the fuel rail then shuts off,now normally on a working system the fuel pump fires up again when the engines is running ,it knows this because it gets a signal from the ECU. So next time you try it stick your EAR on the fuel tank whilst turning on the ignition you will IF IT IS WORKING hear the fuel pump!!!! If not proper guessing comes next ie check voltage to fuel pump fuse da da da da da.As you dont seem that clued up( just for information)if the engines spinning over at a reasonable speed stop wittling about the battery! NO offence intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Right listen carefully i will say this only once! the way that FI works is this! Turn on ignition,fuel pump primes ie pressurises the fuel rail then shuts off,now normally on a working system the fuel pump fires up again when the engines is running ,it knows this because it gets a signal from the ECU. So next time you try it stick your EAR on the fuel tank whilst turning on the ignition you will IF IT IS WORKING hear the fuel pump!!!! If not proper guessing comes next ie check voltage to fuel pump fuse da da da da da.As you dont seem that clued up( just for information)if the engines spinning over at a reasonable speed stop wittling about the battery! NO offence intended Thank you, you Smugbastard I'll have a listen...do i have to get a multimeter ( is that what its called?) and how do they work. Don't get mad. i'll figure it out. First bike i've owned with FI you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smugbastard Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes multimeter needed! If your not sure about it dont spend more than £20 quid on one and have a play with it on the 20volt scale.Grrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Erm, no noises in the fuel rail upon turning on ignition. i also took off the fuel rail to see if anything was ejected from ze injectors because smug said it filled with petrol in the on position. Turned over the bike and gave a bit of throttle...nothing, but matbe its not meant to spit owt. Tilt sensor is connected and works though. Another full day in the garage saturday so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hope you get it sorted, Wesi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 No pump = no fuel in rail (fuel pressure regulator wont open if there is no pressure). You have gotta start at the fuel pump. Pull the connector off, connect it to a multimeter and turn ignition on. You should get 12v for a couple of seconds as the ECU tries to prime the fuel system. If not, then 30A fuse (checked and OK), 10A Fuse (checked and OK), fuel cut-off relay (not checked), engine stop relay (not checked), tilt sensor (checked and OK) finally ECU. I have you booked on a flight into Dublin first thing tomorrow, i'll pick you up, we'll fix the bike..we'll have a steak dinner and get locked, back up to dubland sunday for the bike show and back to the airport.... where are you flying out of again? I wish 1: i had more time to do these thing 2: I had paid attention more in school 3: i knew what i was doing. I hope it gets sorted too Tom, its starting to get me down now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Don't worry, dude. It'll get sorted on here, it's a mindfield of technical help. You've got a checklist to work through now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesifume Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Aye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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