andyp Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've had a set of Hel steel lines in my shed for a couple of months now but due to not using the bike much I've held off fitting them. Now the season is nearly here and I should be getting more use out of it, I'm wanting to fit the lines some time over the next few weeks. I can manage to fit the lines no worries, but the bleeding part is a complete bastard I always find. I've had a look for brake bleeding kits and there are any number of different things from £5 to £50 by the looks of it. Any of the dearer ones worth buying? I hate bleeding brakes but if I can get the right tools organised first I'm keen to get over my mental block with this! If it's any use, the bike is a K7 750 with radial master cylinder which also has a bleed nipple on it. Does this make it any easier or any harder to do? Cheers for any help on this like. Andy (edit - is the likes of this really worth £35? http://www.busters-accessories.co.uk/produ...ed-kits/Mityvac ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strappy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I use a Mityvac unit that's excellent, about £35 IIRC although the pipes have gone cloudy since I've left it out in my damp garage for too many years. I'll either have to find replacement pipes or just buy another one. The process is pretty straightforward; pipe goes over the bleed nipple, create a vacuum by pumping it up, crack the bleed nipple open and watch the fluid coming out, keep reservoir topped up, tighten nipple. Repeat until no bubbles appear in fluid coming out of the nipple. Do the same on both calipers and then do the master cylinder in the same way. You might end up with tiny bubbles coming out of the nipple that don't seem to stop. If so, it's worth checking that all banjos are tight, then if you still get them wrap some PTFE tape around the bleed nipple threads as you sometimes get air in there. HTH edit: Does my post answer your edit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona63 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've got the Mityvac too and it was useful for refilling the lines as it drags the fluid through the system but i thought it was a bit too much for the bleeding process. The old time-honoured 'pumping the brake lever with the nipple just open and then closing it' was spot on for bleeding. I was a novice too when i changed the lines and managed it and the brakes work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weety Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just accept its a shite job and get on with it. A 2 quid length of clear tube and an empty coke bottle are all I've ever needed. Oh and a big syringe I stole from work, but only for emptying the resevoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Bells Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just accept its a shite job and get on with it. A 2 quid length of clear tube and an empty coke bottle are all I've ever needed. Oh and a big syringe I stole from work, but only for emptying the resevoir. Don't forget the spanner and a bezzy mate to pull the lever in and out for you, and then to hold it in while you turn the spanner on the brake nipple. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy_tom Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just accept its a shite job and get on with it. A 2 quid length of clear tube and an empty coke bottle are all I've ever needed. Oh and a big syringe I stole from work, but only for emptying the resevoir. Hey! No stealing my ideas! Mind you when the syringe got broken I just used to suck on the clear tube. A piece of coat hanger is useful if it's tricky to hold your brake lever back whilst you crack the nipple on and off. As for where to get the syringe, I'm sure your local pharmacy could sell you one, they don't have a needle, just a plastic tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawafookin636 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I use a big plastic syringe and attach it to the caliper bleed nipple then crack open. Keep master cylinder topped up as you draw through with syringe, takes a few goes but I've never had any issues with air locks or spongy brakes. My zx6r has radial master cylinder too, just bled off at that nipple at the end. About £5 off ebay iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If you don't want to buy the Mityvac get a car brake bleeding kit for about £5 they have a non-return valve which is useful. You need to bleed from your Master Cylinder first, simply squeeze the lever 3 times and open the nipple, then close it and sqeeze 3 times again. After a while you'll get some feeling in the lever and no more air out the master's nipple close the nipple and do the same 3 squeezes but now do one of the caliper nipples ... then the other caliper and your done. Use 5.1 fluid, wrap the reservior with towelling or a rag to stop any spills dribbling on the bike and finish by washing down the bike to get rid of any fluid spills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo S2 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ive bought kits and non-return valves in the past, not found them too useful to be honest. Length of tube, empty bottle and someone to help is the best way ive found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 As long as the pistons are nice and clean, push them back into the caliper as far as they will go. You'll get less air bubbles trapped in the calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I have used one of these for a few years It works like a syringe as it pumps the fluid through the device. Doesn't use air or a vaccum and you can push fluid in the brake system or pull it out and although can be a bit fiddly it works really well. I had 30 of them in stock and sold them all just before the UK importer stopped bringing them in. I have one left and they were £69.99. I have one in the box for £30.00 cash. It is great when the bit of pipe just doesn't seem to work. I had looked at getting more in and they would have been cheaper then the Price we had them up for but shipping from the USA was a pain. But as a product they are brill and I have used it loads of times to bench bleed up brake systems off the bike as well. If you want it let me know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Just accept its a shite job and get on with it. A 2 quid length of clear tube and an empty coke bottle are all I've ever needed. Oh and a big syringe I stole from work, but only for emptying the resevoir. +1 Then, if there's any sponginess cable there, tie the lever on overnight and that should get rid of any air bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona63 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Best tip, Andyp is to do the back brake first and get that to work. You'll learn fast that way and if it goes all pear-shaped it doesn't stop you using the bike,whereas no front bikes would make the bike unusable til fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 +1 Then, if there's any sponginess cable there, tie the lever on overnight and that should get rid of any air bubbles. The cable tie trick I have been told only puts the air into the fluid and once you remove the cable tie the air that has been absorbed into the fluid comes back out and you start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyp Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ok, cheers. I've done this before like using the open and close method. Just seemed to take ages and never quite got the result in the first sitting. My old man is a dab hand at this stuff, but I'm relying on him coming over to help me and thought I'd like to have it all kitted up and ready to go before he arrived. I like the idea of that gadget you've got there Morepower. Is it easy to use then aye? Sounds like that or the kit Strappy uses is the way to go for me. Cheers for the help folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ok, cheers. I've done this before like using the open and close method. Just seemed to take ages and never quite got the result in the first sitting. My old man is a dab hand at this stuff, but I'm relying on him coming over to help me and thought I'd like to have it all kitted up and ready to go before he arrived. I like the idea of that gadget you've got there Morepower. Is it easy to use then aye? Sounds like that or the kit Strappy uses is the way to go for me. Cheers for the help folks. Dead easy. I have to do almost all of the bleeding on my own so I don't have anyone to help me and it just works.. I do use the bog standard pipe method as well but if I have new lines or an empty system I just use it to pump fluid from the bottom up and it just pushes the air out of the reservoir. Air always wants to go up out of the system so pulling fluid down through the system will almost always keep air in there. It is always better to allow air out through the highest point instead of trying to push it out down through the system. I wouldn't be without it for those times when it becomes a pain in the ass to get the last of the air out of the system.It is just like pushing the fluid through a water pistol (see image). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyp Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Sold! Thanks mate. You have a PM (or will do in a minute) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Sold! Thanks mate. You have a PM (or will do in a minute) No problem... I have used mine for years and it just gets me through the ones that are a pain. When it just won't pump or air will not budge and I am on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark/Foggy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Not a bad tip for new lines is to pump the pads out as far as you dare. Fit the new hoses and then push the pistons back driving all the air up into the master cylinder. This 'wets' the lines and leaves you with a bled system, but with used fluid. Now bleed down from the top as usual until you've got clean fluid, jobs a goodun. I've also had good results from an old style tin oil oiler ( type you used to oil your bicycle chain with if you were born in the 60's cough) They tend to have a see through plastic tube and you can pump in fresh fluid from the nipples on the calipers, I've kept a can dedicated to this job for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeeTeeArr Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Another trick for pumping fluid back through the system is to buy a cheap windscreen washer pump and connect it up to your battery and pump the fluid from your bottle into the bleed nipple. The cable tie trick I have been told only puts the air into the fluid and once you remove the cable tie the air that has been absorbed into the fluid comes back out and you start all over again. I think the theory behind doing this, is that the tiny air bubbles clinging to the inside of the system air get compressed together, then when you release the pressure all of the tiny bubbles merge into one big bubble which is easier to push through the system when you rebleed. I don't know if it work in practice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 A proper pump kicks the arse out of a syringe, by a distance. the problem is that a syringe's seals fuck up royally after a bit of exposure to brake fluid and the whole thing stops working so well. My Mityvac is possibly the best bit of kit I've got in my garage, it's awesome. From completely dry calipers, new hoses etc to fully bled in about 5 minutes, both sides done. SUck the fluid through with the mity vac and then give it one final squeezy bleed the old fashioned way to finish. Perfect results every time. You can use it on your car too where it's always a 2 man job, and as the brakes etc are that bit bigger you don't even have to do the final bit by hand. £30 for a proper bleeding tool is money well spent, it'll save you hours over the course of a year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyp Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thanks for the input folks. I took Morepower up on his offer so should hopefully have my new lines on and bled to perfection before too long. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Hey andyp, have you done the job with the mitivac (can't help thinking "McVities" biscuits) and how did it work for you? I'm ordering braided Hel hoses for my Caponord and considering getting this tool as I have no biking mates around here to keep an eye on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 put the hel lines on the r1 on thursday night. only took about an hour start to finish. no bleedin kit or anything. fit everything and nip it all up, lid off etc, and then to get the fluid moving remove a caliper banjo bolt, hold your fingers over the fitting holes, and pump away. you can feel when the air is getting pumped, let it out on the pump stroke, cover with fingers on the release. do the other side, then bleed as normal. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysp1 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I bought this one way valve thing for a couple of quid from halfords. Comes with some clips and plastic tubing. Its the best ive used, dead easy. Just stick it on and pump the lever and remember to keep topping up the fluid. TIP; Make sure that the fluid bottle as been stood for a while. This will make sure that there are no air bubbles in side when you start pouring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.