uggiebear Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Just got my pride and joy in from being outside since i deployed to the gulf in march and found some rusty water in 2 cylinders appart from thinking of hanging myself can i just replace the fucked valves, seals etc or is it worse than that ? also need to replaces the pistons! At the moment the noose is looking a far cheaper easy option any help would be greatly appreciated if i dont reply i have found some decent rope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Pigdog Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Ello mate,first up what bike are we talking about?i.e. is it air/oil or liquid cooled??When you say water in the cylinders do you mean rainwater?it's not game over if it is!!what makes you think the valves are buggered too?Maybe did you crank it over with this water in and hydraulic locked it?Sorry for all the questions!!erm you got a supplier of cheap noses too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Sorry just remebering how you get the 13 knots in the nose and will it take the weight :S Its a 2001 R1 i think its rain water as it was outside and covered up with rags in the holes and oil in the bores.... what has happend is the 2 right hand piston inlet valves which is 6 on this model look like they are fooked one of the piston 2 set of exhaust valves dont look to clever either. The camshaft area looks new its just the valves look bad and the intakes look dirt but clean up no prob. I beleive but not sure that replaceing the valves and seal will sort it out? Can i do this (ok with tools ) Or should i send it to a specialst so he can weigh it up etc! Just looking at the headache of splitting the engine at present and replacing the pistons The bores look like new and the pistons look ok too but one went furry which is is the left hand cyclinder and has what appears like a hole in it which is bloody weird as that one was ok, weird thing is not much evidence of the oil i thought i put in out of the lot i think i have only one good cylinder is there hope yet or should i crack on with the noose and move to bridgend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Pigdog Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 So seeing as youre reluctant to strip the engine i'll assume you havent removed the cylinder head then?How are you coming to the assumption the valves and piston aren't looking too smart?they would have to be pretty seriously corroded to be unusable-are they bent?get some pics up if you can and you can get a few opinions rather than just me!Rusty water can make things look a helluva lot worse than they really are and you say the inlets cleaned up good. You DID put the same plugs back in the holes rather than put longer ones in(causing a hole in piston crown)?Anyways-hold back on the specialists for a bit as its frikken freezing out there!(never knew that about the 13 knots in a noose!i'll keep that in mind for them monday blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I was cleaning the engine up and spraying it when some rusty water came out, i then realised how bad things where! I wipped the top off and looked inside to see the state of the bores which was good noticed number 1 piston had white fluff all over it and the inside of the head valve area/piston domes did not look to bad! looking at the inlet and out lets really freaked me 3 and 4 look bad on the inlet and 3 looks ok ish on the outlet i have soaked them in wd40 tonight, well everything is soaked i wd40 at the mo even me. Pistons will need replacing as number 1 is shot to shit, which looked fine in feb(like new) Worried about the valves as i they look like Poop. Not bent but concerned over the rust and how much there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Pigdog Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Gotta be photos then mate as rust is hard to quantify!!If you're dead set the piston has to be replaced you're handy enough to disassemble it all without damaging it you think?you in a rush to get it back on the road as thats what you gotta weigh up-if you do it yourself it will be lots more satisfying and cheap but theres that risk of it going pearshaped-its not that hard really-everythings just a process isnt it!or maybe you want it quick-in which case im sure people here can recommend some engine tuners(you could turn the negative into a positive and maybe use this as a chance to uprate it a little) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well had another look the rust is flying off! but its thick but when removed looks good! cant understand. The rust starts at the inlet rubbers ( carbs where off) which cleaned up with a wipe and its ally so it must have come from something that could rust and stain, well above it was the rag and bellow it was the valve so it must be from the valve there is about 1mm of rust on the valve and valve stem. Thinking probably best to change it for peace of mind! is it a straight one for one or do i need to weigh it?. There is a little rust on a few other valves but i think lapping the valves in with paste will sort that out. As for tech level i managed to dial my cams in for my turbo which looks like it will be off even longer! As for the really rusty valves thinking replace? Will try to do a picture now! Here we go trying to get the pc camera and bucket thing to talk....Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Just loading up software i have the picture on the camera..........Just need to get it on the pc! One day everything will be wireless everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not brilliant but will try and get a better pic tomorrow. This one has ailiens visitors,those 4 dots where not there when i took it! i wonder if it was them? Should sell it too the sun and hopefully that will cover the cost :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That rust is about a 1mm thick at worst the inlet bores clean up real quick but have left a tide mark which i am sure will clean up with some autosol. Looks like to do the rest properly will have to be valves out. Something i am worried about to say the least! Will i get away with just sorting the bad valves out or do i have to do the lot? Thinking replacement head at present not sure i am wondering how much a valve is? Bloody thing took me ages to get the valve timing right as well! good job the bores are ok and changing the pistons gives me the excuse to put turbo pistons in which is something i cant afford but seen as i am splitting the block i might as well do also gives me the chance to check everything over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 So you left it stood outside without the plugs in? Head off at the least to give it all a good clean up. How do you know the bores are alright, just from looking down the plugholes? What have you done to it that meant that "it took ages to get the valve timing right"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Its a 2001 R1 i think its rain water as it was outside and covered up with rags in the holes and oil in the bores.... So you left it stood outside without the plugs in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 just start it up, and see what happens, I had a friend who put in a rusty zxr400 motor and it ran fine, after a hour or two it was spotless inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 just start it up, and see what happens [Dr.Pepper mode/on] what's the worst that can happen? [Dr.Pepper mode/off] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Well not all bad news! Spoke to Damaralls, local yam dealer in plymouth (good bunch of guys) and it works out quite cheap about £20 per valve with stem seals Hopefully i will only need to replace 3 They still work and hold wd40 but will do the peterol test tonight hopefully to see how bad or good things are! Malcom at MBC (http://www.mbcustoms.co.uk/) has offered to help out for a price if anything serious needs doing to the seats etc So next time i leave an engine for a while i will top it up with diesel not wd40. As for how do i know the barrels are ok.... Yam do not do a floral print block which you can see in the picks! God i so hope no one realises its from asda..... Really gutted still though as i was hoping the pics i would be posting was on my turbo build up rather than engine strip! Thing is not have i only got a head to strip clean etc ... I have to split the engine and do a piston swap....... GUTTED Anyone live in the states and want to accept a package and post it on? it wont be cocaine but JE pistons Just need to rob a bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Well not all bad news! So next time i leave an engine for a while i will top it up with diesel not wd40. Glad to hear it's not worse. Maybe I'm missing something here, but next time wouldn't it be better to just put the spark plugs back in, when you leave it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Glad to hear it's not worse. Maybe I'm missing something here, but next time wouldn't it be better to just put the spark plugs back in, when you leave it? Spark plugs where in carbs where off and ragged up bike was covered with a bike cover a rubber boot protector out of a 4x4 and a couple of breeze blocks, still not sure how it got in? have being told it could have been moisture build up.... I think just unlucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Zakalwe your spot on! the only thing that backs up water ingress from the cover is the state of the spark plug holes, after a day of sitting in wd it looks quite good and the valves have come up quite nice! oh well will strip to be on the safe side ! Next time i find it like this i will dose the bike in peterol then apply a match after that i will ring the insurance company and then the fire brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootall Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 As for how do i know the barrels are ok.... Yam do not do a floral print block which you can see in the picks! God i so hope no one realises its from asda..... what are you on about? I see no piccies of the barrels. Really gutted still though as i was hoping the pics i would be posting was on my turbo build up rather than engine strip! Thing is not have i only got a head to strip clean etc ... I have to split the engine and do a piston swap....... GUTTED Anyone live in the states and want to accept a package and post it on? it wont be cocaine but JE pistons Just need to rob a bank. So are your barrels ok or not? Why have you got to do a piston swap if they're ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 As for how do i know the barrels are ok.... Yam do not do a floral print block which you can see in the picks! God i so hope no one realises its from asda..... what are you on about? I see no piccies of the barrels. No but you see a picture of the heads resting on a linen cloth that has a floral print,And if the head is off i should be able to see the bore and piston crowns should i not or is this really serious i know its only little pics but it shows that the head has been taken off. Starting to strip the head tonight so will post some more pics and for you tootall i will take a pic of number one cylinder so you can see what damage has been done i was gutted as it was covered in white fluff and i thought nothing of it but closer inspection shows a few small hole and one small but quite deep hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you are worried, which you do sound a bit, take the motor down to your Yam dealer and let them sort it (but get an estimate first) I'm thinking it'll cost you a monkey. I would go along with Zakalwe's thoughts on this and if it were my bike I wouldn't worry too much about a bit of rust. I've had some seriously rusty 15 years in the back garden engines running sweet and thrashing good with the "Bung a load of oil in there for a while" method. Rust isn't that different to carbon and your pistons and valves will see plenty of that during their working life. Keep smiling and use your rope to build a nice swing in the garden Edit to add I'd be shocked and quite surprised if the piston had a hole in it due to ally oxidisation, you are bound to get a certain amount of oxidisation on the crown but you are unlikely to get a hole even on a really old bike unless it was whacked by a valve or an overlong plug. I would need a decent pic to make any judgement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks all for the concern and help its nice to know the help you can get when you need it. I have got all valves out on cylinder number one, i am a motorbike cylinder head virgin (thought a lot before posting that one) on cylinder 1 inlet 3 was shitty but the seat was good so might tap my mate up for an inlet valve on that one, depending on how many i need or what it all comes to etc wil depend on budget. Thanks for the good advice on taking it to a Yam dealer though there good engineers i think with a bit of care i can do it my biggest let down is a good garage. I am a sparky by trade but have done a lot of marine engineering normally in gangs with experiance varying. But must admit i am enjoying this so think i will crack on myself maybe with a few questions on here Haynes are not as thorough as some of the Br's we get BR= Book of Referance or oem manual. Annaz i was quite shocked at the damage on the cylinder i have inspected the sump up and the top end and they still look like new its only the valve stems and piston crowns that so far look shitty. As for the stem seals they are £3 each and if i have the head stripped why not put them in its really only like replacing a gasket i know it comes to a tidy amount seen as yams have so many bloody valves. At least i now know my engine is a genuine 5jj model as it has the modified exhaust valves. Anyway will have pics soon. Just having a cuppa and a cig! Pistons and rings are being replaced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Doesn't sound that bad then, which is nice. If you,ve got the cylinder head off I would recommend getting it skimmed (£20 - £30 normally) this will ensure a good flat mating surface and is common practice with top end jiggery. You will also have a good opportunity to shim the valves as necessary and check the cam profiles and this should save you having to delve in there for some time. If you're really having fun you could get the dremel out and polish ya ports. Gas flowing is a popular carry-on as polishing the inlets gives you less induction turbulence and therefore better combustion performance which could be very beneficial with a turbo on the job. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Here the pics Well seems image shack is playing up so will have to wait a mo. Right one valve has a water mark on it? i dont know if this is that serious or not. The head will be de coked and cleaned up and all valves cleaned and lapped in. I am a little worried about some staining/waterdamge on one of the valve seats but its not on the valve sealing angle so dont think its that serious will check with Malcom at mbc tomorrow. After wiping and thats wiping with some kitchen roll and wd40 all the rust disapeers? weird you cant really tell its being there which really puzzles me as there was shit loads! I also find it strange on the shape and nature of the rust its more like a crystal structure than real rust and you can see the engineering groves on the valves and they look perfect taking into account the carbon deposits so all this leaves me scratching my head. Right pistons! Hopefully you will see that the tie rap is in about 2mm and there is another hole just in front of the exhaust valve cut out that is about 2mm again deep maybe a little more. What looks like a v is actually damage some only water marks some little holes like detonation. I know last time i saw this piston in Feb it looked fine. So bugger but not as bad i thought unless when i strip the block something else decide to rear up. Funny i struggled more and hated it more posting the pics, loading up to photo bucket than i did covering myself in crap and cutting my hands up etc doing the bike work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Oh and i have sourced some low comp pistons JE they are bloody expensive hence why i am flogging my attic treasure chest at the mo on e bay but as i have explained to the better half if i am splitting the engine i desreve it In some ways miracles do happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 You won't do that again now will you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 No but i hope santa brings me a bloody garage! Spoke to Malcom again at MBC (shameless plug) and he says crack on but replace the stem seals as a matter of course and clean and inspect the valves, i have had an offer of free valves from another good source so that should keep the cost down. So sometime soon i will clean up the head and valves and lap them in, bit worried about this lap thing as it normaly cost me £20 quid a session or more if i go VIP, but its worth it Put the deposit down on the pistons......ouch not to sure when they will be here but should be here by the end of the month. So tonight is another trip into my treasure chest to see what else i can flog on e bay. Just hope i can split the block and not find any more damage. Would love to get some decent rods in but the prices are stupid. Still gutted that this has put me finacially back quite a bit but might as well give her a good going over before i get her ready for summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbor1steve Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 did i say free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbor1steve Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 yes i am back. my posts have gone back to 0. what a bum.that means i am a newbeeeeeeeeeeeee. again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.