CRMotard Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Opinions? http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/09/ditching-your-two-strokes-carb-for-port-fuel-injection/ the 'black box' is $999 USD (aparently turn key ready) aparently he is making 50mm manifolds with twin injectors for big bores ingles, and 40mm manifolds for 250cc cylinders Sounds like it has potential... only draw backs I can think of is having to run a big battery for the fuel pump, and the cost ($999 for the black box fully set up for your aplication, and $300 for the manifold/injectors, plus fuel pump, battery, and all the other bits and peices) would be very interesting if the 10% power gains are true... an extra 10hp would be very handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Should be pretty cool, I'm looking at it as being easier to adjust settings as pulling tank, airbox then carb for each jetting change does get tedious!! Won't be in the market for it till 2013 personally, but have it in my sights!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 i scanned it quickly, implies they map it for you. if you can't map it yourself it is totally and utterly worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 why do you need to buy s 'twostroke specific' injection system - make your own using an off the shelf ecu and a throttle body. the only issue i can think of is if you run premix, what happens to the injector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMotard Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 yeah, it doesnt need to be specific... but a microsquirt system with all the bits and peices costs the same if not more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 off the top of my head, what it cost to do the mono ecu - emerald - 550 tbody - jenvey - 150 manifold - self - free pump - cant remember - 50 quid wiring harness - RS for the wire etc - 50 quid swirl pot - self - free braided hose and fittings - robbing barstewards - one million pounds tbody sensor - emerald - 35 quid fuel rail, injector etc - cant remember atm - 200 quid maybe? battery and all that kind of stuff 100 quid so to get it running about £1200 plus the million for the hoses. plus dyno time plus a decent wideband = approx 450 quid which you cannot do without Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 10% is that all, a decent ignition will do that plus 2 jets, and you will still have enough change from a grand for a holiday. Also there is something much better on the horizon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMotard Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 exactly.. and this guy i offering "turn key" set ups for 990USD... I dont think hes done his sums correctly or doesnt know what turn key means... "Cost is $995.00 Retail (70cc-100cc system) through dealers for a turn key system if I go that route" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_H Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Hmm, trying to fit something like that to my crm would be cause for nightmares, theres piss all room for the stuff its already got fitted. I'll keep my jets ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMotard Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 haha, try fitting a real carb on that CRM first haha my crm has plently more room ever since I ditched the premix tanks lol but I wasnt talking about it being for my CRM, it was for my 380RR but the price doesnt seem realistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_H Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Mines an AR, a new carb would also bring on headaches of the highest order "the tubes, the tubes!" etc, lol. I can live with it as it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMotard Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 so is mine... no headaches of the highest order... if the carb has no TPS I beleive the ignition assumes 100% throttle... you only get headaches when you put a race ECU and an overbored CR250 cylinder on it... ouch my head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 10% is that all, a decent ignition will do that plus 2 jets, and you will still have enough change from a grand for a holiday. Also there is something much better on the horizon something better??? Do tell!! lol I have a GPR50 and just found it a pain in the butt every jetting change pulling all the bits off! As much as I'd dream of owning a 4 cyl 2T something tells me I'd never have the patience to jet it properly!! I was think how nice an injection system would be and the very next day I saw the first posting of the injection kit!! Not going to jump in both feet yet though, want to see how others find it as it is alot of dosh!! p.s. 2T .......... 415 vs 420 chain, think it's worth the drop?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 10% is that all, a decent ignition will do that plus 2 jets, and you will still have enough change from a grand for a holiday. Also there is something much better on the horizon What is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Not allowed to say ATM but it's way more advanced yet simpified in it's operation. Jetting is very simple and having a decent ignition makes it far easier to jet a 415 chain is the go on a 50 a push bike chain would probably do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMotard Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 quote: "Hello, I will have kits available on my web site early next week that should work well for you. If you want me to pre-program it for a specific ignition curve, I can do that. We are seeing higher peak HP with a stronger torque curve on all two stroke builds. Total cost is around $1300. I will have a firm cost after we finish developing our flanges for the throttle bodies. What is your carburetors mounting diameter?" so 1300 is for everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 $1300 buys a lot of track and dyno time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Hey anyone able to explain on how to make the correct ignition curve for a bike? I was looking at the HPI programable ignitions but wouldn't know where to start! Is it something one can look at approximate tables for or calculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 on a 50 a push bike chain would probably do don't know now a derestricted 50, she's bit of a beast!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Hey anyone able to explain on how to make the correct ignition curve for a bike? I was looking at the HPI programable ignitions but wouldn't know where to start! Is it something one can look at approximate tables for or calculate. You go to the dyno and test. If your lucky you don't come home with a hole in the piston.You would be far better off starting with moving the stator around and seeing what difference that made. The best Dutch 50cc racers are getting just shy of 20HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Afraid you were going to say that!!! Have been playing with offset woodruff keys to get a feel for changes (not on the Derbi). Seat of the pants tuning isn't so easy, might be better feel if I wear speedos!! seen those Dutch 50cc racers, pretty crazy, no plans for that type of tune. Aiming for similar power but with 90cc bigbore in a less peaky output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Afraid you were going to say that!!! Have been playing with offset woodruff keys to get a feel for changes (not on the Derbi). Seat of the pants tuning isn't so easy, might be better feel if I wear speedos!! seen those Dutch 50cc racers, pretty crazy, no plans for that type of tune. Aiming for similar power but with 90cc bigbore in a less peaky output. It's incorrect to assume a high peak number is a peaky output. The 20HP 50cc racers are anything but peaky, rgvbaz could tell you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 It's incorrect to assume a high peak number is a peaky output. The 20HP 50cc racers are anything but peaky, rgvbaz could tell you more. There is no way they cannot be peaky. The last 250s had about 110bhp or a lil more (so roughly 5 x 50cc) and they were not peaky only because they had such advanced electronics including the electronic carbs. There would be little advantage making the 50s not peaky, they must run all the time at their peak torque area as there is never any need to brake on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMotard Posted September 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 thats Mr Kreidler with his twin exhaust port symetrical two stroke yes? wow, 20hp... what a beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottydog Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 It's incorrect to assume a high peak number is a peaky output. The 20HP 50cc racers are anything but peaky, rgvbaz could tell you more. er relatively peaky? lol My race Honda 75cc (similar craft to some of the SOBW racers) is a 9,500 to 13,500 power band, compared to 7,000 to 10,000 for the stocker with pipe. Spoke to a few guys who race them, really good at providing advice!! they sure fly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 thats Mr Kreidler with his twin exhaust port symetrical two stroke yes? wow, 20hp... what a beast http://atlascardsplus.com/1974-jamathi/ 1974 18HP http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/jamathi.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_H Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/jamathi.html Cool story that, impressive what they were doing that long ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Really nice read that, theyre certainly some legends Mijwaart and Thiel. Im a massive Kaaden fan as well, what he did with no money and shitey old materials really was amazing. Some of the books by Vic Willoughby with interviews with him really are worth buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Check out the gearbox! No selector forks. It kind of looks like the shift mechanism Honda brought out this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2T Institue Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Check out the gearbox! No selector forks. It kind of looks like the shift mechanism Honda brought out this year. Actual it is very very close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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