Hoover Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hi All, Just joined the forum so hello all! I'm interested in building a hub centre steer bike. Has anyone on here done that before or know the basics of HCS design? If I do it it will be a while before I get started. Although I'd like to buy in the chassis I can't find anyone that makes and supplies them so plan will be to design my own chassis and swing arms and buy in the HCS hub, steer and brake assembly. I'm thinking two u-shaped aluminium cradle beams, one each side of the engine going under and around the cases, with a swing arm off the front and the back of the U. Hoover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover Posted July 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 I designed and made a half scale working model of a single sided, 4 bar link, hydraulically steered, hub centre front end for my engineering degree thesis 15 years ago.... It's an incredibly complex subject and if you are starting from scratch then you really need to learn the basics of motorbike chassis design and all of the influencing factors before you start. Tony Foale's work is as good a place to start as any. Hi Millemille, You read my mind, I've ordered his book and CD, and noted the software he has for conventional and HCS bikes! If I base the geometry on an existing standard bike (except for the HCS of course) will that be an effective short cut? For example if I base it on a 'Busa and use the same basic geometry (wheel base, engine location, pivot point, ride height)? Rake and trail will be very adjustable so I could start by mirroring the 'Busa front end settings (albeit on HCS instead of forks) and work from there with test sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezz Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 or check out was suspensionsmith is up to..... http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopi...mith&st=280 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hi Millemille, You read my mind, I've ordered his book and CD, and noted the software he has for conventional and HCS bikes! If I base the geometry on an existing standard bike (except for the HCS of course) will that be an effective short cut? For example if I base it on a 'Busa and use the same basic geometry (wheel base, engine location, pivot point, ride height)? Rake and trail will be very adjustable so I could start by mirroring the 'Busa front end settings (albeit on HCS instead of forks) and work from there with test sessions. One of the advantages of HCS steering is that you can use different geometry. I'd say if you copied the Busa setup then you'd be failing to take advantage of the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover Posted July 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Your motivation for wanting to build a hub centre steering front end should answer your own question.... Why do you want to build one? Because you think that a conventional telescopic front end has limitations? If so, what are these and how will you have your front end overcome these limitations? My motivation came because I thought, at the time, that being able to separate steering, braking and shock absorbing actions and the resultant impact upon geometry/weight distribution and suspension would be superior to the closed loop that exists in telescopic front ends. What Suspensionsmith is working on isn't hub centre steering..... Motivation is twofold, overcome limitations of telescopic forks and also building a bike with a very different look and character. With regard to my short cut question that was more related to the geometry of the rest of the bike (similar I suppose to taking an existing bike and adding HCS) and as HCS is so adjustable (well beyond the adjustability of forks) starting with standard geometry and then adjusting the HCS geometry from there to further improve handling and take advantage of the HCS set up. From your response I assume you would advise starting from scratch rather than starting from "standard" geometry? I have identified a supplier of the HCS hub, brakes and steering so would just be designing the frame and swing arms to go with it (and building up the complete bike from there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezz Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 Your motivation for wanting to build a hub centre steering front end should answer your own question.... Why do you want to build one? Because you think that a conventional telescopic front end has limitations? If so, what are these and how will you have your front end overcome these limitations? My motivation came because I thought, at the time, that being able to separate steering, braking and shock absorbing actions and the resultant impact upon geometry/weight distribution and suspension would be superior to the closed loop that exists in telescopic front ends. What Suspensionsmith is working on isn't hub centre steering..... oops sorry my mistakio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmarque Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 ISR made HCS for SE Service http://www.isrbrakes.se/products/ns2/ As to building your own chassis. High recommend reading these first. (prepare for a headache if your from a non engineering background..) The Racing Motorcycle - A technical guide for constructors Vols 1+2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover Posted July 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 ISR made HCS for SE Service http://www.isrbrakes.se/products/ns2/ As to building your own chassis. High recommend reading these first. (prepare for a headache if your from a non engineering background..) The Racing Motorcycle - A technical guide for constructors Vols 1+2 Spot on! ISR are the supplier I had in mind. Nice guys, they've sent me a set of drawings for the HCS. It's fairly pricey, and it will be a long term project but I think the result could be stunning! Thanks for the link, I'll have a thorough read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover Posted July 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 So what do you believe the limitations of telescopic forks are? Not asking to be clever or to make a point...if you detail what your think then that should answer your question regarding geometry. I'm expecting less dive and to be able to use less rake than forks. Also, being a Bloodrunners fan I want the look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Mmmmmmmm, Bloodrunners................ Good enough reason to build one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover Posted July 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Mmmmmmmm, Bloodrunners................ Good enough reason to build one. Aaahhh! Also an Elsie fan I see. Obviously a man of impecable good taste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Suspensionsmith has talked about building a HCS bike before. Not sure where though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspensionsmith Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Suspensionsmith has talked about building a HCS bike before. Not sure where though. I think it was in my wildest fantasys.....yeah thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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