Houston we have a problem...

[MonkeyJim]

I was in the Peak District at the weekend on the R1 with some mates. Unfortunately the R1 came to a sudden and unexpexcted stop in the Peaks on Saturday - and not because I had crashed into a dry stone wall or anything.

I'd spent all day saturday merrily thrapping the hell out out of her, and we were on our way back into Buxton at the end of the day. Coming to a junction, I noticed the clutch lever 'felt a bit funny' and there suddenly seemed to be quite a bit of slack in the lever. But otherwise the bike was going great.

With hindsight [always wonderful] perhaps I should have realised something was up. A few miles later, about 4 miles outside of Buxton, and thankfully on a straight bit of road, I was doing about 60 when all of a sudden there was a fucking awful loud screeching and grinding noise from the engine, which just lost all power instantly.

Oh fuck

I shut the throttle and whipped in the clutch. WTF? the clutch lever came back to the bar, no pressure at the lever. Fuuuuuuck

It won't go down through the gears, I'm on the brakes and managed to get it pulled into a handy side turning, the back wheel locks up as I come to stop.

I get off the bike and a couple of mates pull over to assist. cheers lads. There's some coolant coming out of the bottom of the bike.

Oh fuckity fuck fucker not fucking again!

First thought is maybe the clutch cable has snapped, but when I pull the lever it is moving the actuator arm at the engine end. But it feels like that's not actually turning anything.

So I figure it's not going to be a roadside fix so I get on the phone to sort some breakdown, through Carole Nash. They will only recover me once per breakdown, so my choices are [1] recovery into Buxton now to the B&B and sort getting the bike home tomorrow or [2] get the bike recovered all the way home now or [3] get Richard to get his trailer from home - about 15 mins away - and get shit faced in Buxton and have the curry with the lads, and get the bike recovered home the next day. Hmmmm

Schofield Recovery Services Ltd to the rescue!

Wake up with a stinking hangover and a sore arse. Pete assures me that is due to the numerous pints of Black Sheep and a chicken madras, and that he had not interfered with me during the night. Well, not that he can remember, either. What goes on tour etc...

Anyway I got the bike home on sunday [big shout out to SOS Motorcycle Recovery via Carole Nash, top work fellas] and got my spanners a-twirling, trying to establish what had gone wrong

Prime suspect had to be the clutch, I reckoned, or something related to it. Anyway here is the news, with some nice pictures for you

First step was to get the bike up on stands and get all the bodywork off to allow access to the clutch cover

next off was the exhaust. It's not in the way of the clutch cover or owt, but it makes changing the oil & coolant easier & quicker - and it's one less thing in the way. The whole system from downpipes to can comes off in about 2 minutes, it makes me feel like a motoGp mechanic, let me tell you.

With the clutch cable disconnected at the engine end, I carefully removed the clutch cover. On the R1 the clutch is up high and above the sump, so no need to drain the oil just to remove the cover.

I expected to see some carnage.... but found this - all looking as it should

So..... so far so good. Next I removed the 6 bolts in the centre which hold the clutch centre together with the clutch spring [it's a diaphragm spring on the R1]

See that large nut in the bottom of the clutch centre? That should be on the shaft in the centre, that should... it's supposed to hold the clutch centre in the clutch basket.

hmmmmmm..... somehow I think that may be connected to the problem?

On checking the trusty Haynes manual, there was no trace of the tabbed lockwasher which is supposed to fit under the clutch centre nut - which of course is there to stop the nut coming undone oh dear

So I found the box containing the original clutch centre, which the garage had given back to me when they fitted the slipper unit. Oh, what's that I spy? can you guess.....?

Yes, you're right - there in the box was the lockwasher

And there was something else in the box, too.

Here is the slipper clutch unit, which just pulled straight out of the clutch basket, without the centre nut holding it in place.

See that large washer with the splined inside? That's a thrust washer that is, which should be present between the clutch centre and basket.

But it wasn't there. Hmmm where could that be, I wonder? guess what? it was lurking in the box with the old clutch, nestling up to the tabbed lockwasher - they were old friends.

So basically what appears to have happened is this: without the thrust washer, the whole clutch centre was able to float on the shaft and without the lock washer the clutch nut had unwound itself over time until it fell off. At that point the clutch failed. The slack in the lever must have been the impending sign the clutch was about to fail.

Luckily, there doesn't appear to be any visible damage to the slipper clutch iteslf, or the clutch basket, which looks like this

a clutch basket, yesterday

Some of the clutch plates and steels are looking a bit second-hand though - not sure if this is just through general wear or as a result of the clutch failure. Or both.

With the clutch re-assembled with all the bits in the correct order, I put the bike in gear and turned the back wheel - everything seems to turn ok so I'm hoping there isn't any further damage to the engine. Not sure why it dumped its coolant, can only guess on that one.

I've called the garage yesterday and told them what has happened and why I think it has happened [c'os they fucked up] and what were they going to do about it. I'm waiting for a for a call back to decide what happens next.

As you might imagine, I'm less than happy. Not only have they fucked up, but if that had happened on the Snake Pass at ***mph I might not be telling you all about it. I will keep the garage details private for the meantime as at least one of the guys that works for them has frequented here before.

In the meantime, I'm going to get cracking on fixing it myself. I can't do any worse, can I?

I've already ordered a new lockwasher [the Haynes manual recommends a new one each time] plus a clutch cover gasket and I'm on the hunt for some new clutch plates and a clutch holding tool - so I can do up the centre nut to the specified torque.

I'll keep you posted on progress, but fingers crossed she will live again, and soon!

[TKDMitch]

Glad you're ok fella and good detective skills!

It'll be interesting to see what the garage say.... have they been good previously?

Mitch

[MonkeyJim]

Glad you're ok fella and good detective skills!

It'll be interesting to see what the garage say.... have they been good previously?

Mitch

Cheers. It was a brown trousers moment, fo'sho. With the coolant pipe going pop last year, it's getting expensive to keep having the inside of the leathers cleaned.

Yes the garage have always been good previously. very good. I've been taking my bikes there for over 10 years, for servicing and tyres, and have taken various cars there too over the years. My Dad, Brother and avarious mates have also used them over the years. In fact I wouldn't take my bike anywhere else. I have a Yamaha main dealer about 2 miles from my house and I wouldn't pay them in washers, as me Dad would say.

They're really nice guys and I've built up a very good relationship with them over the years. I get a cuppa when i go there, and can smoke rollies in the workshop, that's how good it is. This is the first time that I've ever had a problem with anything they've done. Thing is, this isn't like they haven't balanced the carbs properly or something. I could have died.

Funnily enough, I nearly fitted the slipper clutch myself as I fancied having a go. I'm not a motoGP mechanic [though I have fantasies] but I consider myself fairly handy with the spanners [thanks Dad].

But as the R1 was going into them for a service, I got them to do it at the same time. About two weeks later I took it back in as I could hear a slight knocking noise coming from the clutch side of the engine. They said 'ah that's just the slipper clutch rattling'

[millerich]

Glad you're ok. That sounds like an almighty fuck up. Hopefully they'll have the balls to admit as much and do what they can for you.

[Barry]

Monkey, that's a lucky escape I believe you had there!

Refitting should be simple, but if you want a hand I'm local, and don't mind popping over.

I have a clutch holding tool too if you want to borrow it?

[alexp5]

Oof . Could've been nasty, glad you're ok though.

Name and shame..?

[MonkeyJim]

Oof . Could've been nasty, glad you're ok though.

Name and shame..?

Yeah, it could've been nasty. as in fatal nasty.

I'm not going to do any naming or shaming yet - I have to give them the opportunity to address it.

But the clock is ticking. I called them yesterday morning and the guy said he would come back to me.... he hasn't done yet.

Monkey, that's a lucky escape I believe you had there!

Refitting should be simple, but if you want a hand I'm local, and don't mind popping over.

I have a clutch holding tool too if you want to borrow it?

Ah, thanks mate, that is very much appreciated. You're a gent, in the original sense of the word.

I actually ordered a clutch holding tool yesterday but it may not arrive for a few days, so I may take you up on that offer. A spare pair of hands to hold the clutch still would be, err, handy.

Can you PM me your contact number please? so I can get in touch if needed. Muchos gracias.

[peter30]

Lottery numbers for tomorrow please Jim! Good to see it didn't bite you. If you need any help, I've got a tyre that needs some miles on it to get rid of the release compound and I'm happy to pop up to yours and drink your tea...

[MonkeyJim]

Lottery numbers for tomorrow please Jim! Good to see it didn't bite you. If you need any help, I've got a tyre that needs some miles on it to get rid of the release compound and I'm happy to pop up to yours and drink your tea...

And the lottery numbers are..... hah you must be joking, get your own.

But thanks for the offer of help Peter, i'll give you a shout if needed. Might be coming over to Teddington Studios again in the next few weeks - by bike or car, TBC - and if so I could call in for one of your fine cups of tea.

I managed to get working on the bike last night, with the help of a mate and a shiny new clutch holding tool*

I got the clutch centre installed and the all-important tabbed lock-washer, and fitted the centre nut and torqued it up to 70NM as noted in the trusty Haynes manual.

Clutch and friction plates back in [some of the steels are seriously blued, so a complete new set of plates is on order] followed by the clutch front plate, spring and retainer. But otherwise it all seems to go back together fine and apart from the blued plates there's no other visible damage. All good so far.

Could I get the bloody clutch cover back on so the pull rod aligned properly with the release arm? Could I buggery bollocks It's a right fiddly arse job. Just as you get the clutch cover into place, it knocks the pull rod which drops down a bit.

After countless attempts and muchos swearing, luckily I ran out of daylight before I reached for the fixing stick [claw hammer]

It does say in the Haynes manual it is 'tricky'. Funny bastards.

Anyway hoping to have another go this evening or tomorrow, will keep you posted.

*courtesy of Vision MX http://www.visionmx.co.uk/ who get top marks for customer service

I ordered one over the phone at 4pm on Monday, it arrived the next day.

£20 plus a couple of quid for P&P. It's identical to the one in the picture, which is the 'official' Yamaha part number, which was £80. Bwahahahahahahaha

HPS also do one for £80 but the £20 version did the job just fine, thankyouverymuch

[TKDMitch]

Any reply from the garage of (near)death?

Mitch

[heds954]

Glad you managed to avoid disaster fella.

Strewth, I can't believe that the garage made such a rudimentary mistake. It's not like they didn't have the old parts right in front of them when they fitted the slipper. The truth of the matter is that when you came to do the clutch back up (with all the parts this time) it was a process that you were unfamiliar with so you consulted a manual, so why couldn't the garage have done the same?

Considering the potential consequences of their monumental cockup I think you're taking this exceptionally well, I know for sure that I'd have gone fucking apeshit!!

[Mark/Foggy]

Don't want to worry anybody, but this stopped a P1 race at Oschesleben a couple of years ago. Check out behind the Clutch Basket, there's a sprocket back there that runs a chain onto the oil pump on later bikes. If the sprocket walks of the splines it's game over.

Good luck.

[peter187]

If you can weld you could make a clutch lockup tool by welding a steel bar on some studs to an old steel clutch plate, or a few bolted together.

[MonkeyJim]

Any reply from the garage of (near)death?

Mitch

Not yet, but I'm on a course all day - fuck me it is boring - in fact right this second as I type this [bless you Wi-Fi ] I have a few missed calls and messages to pick up later on.

I'm not holding my breath though. As each day goes by with no follow up I am getting more fucked off with them and if they don't get back to me soon I will be calling them again. I won't be as calm next time.

If you can weld you could make a clutch lockup tool by welding a steel bar on some studs to an old steel clutch plate, or a few bolted together.

I can't weld and now is not the time to be trying it for the first time

The Haynes manual gives a pic with dimensions etc if you want to make your own.

But for £20 it was a no-brainer... and it did the job perfectly - no chewing of clutch basket, or nuffin'.

[MonkeyJim]

PS anyone got any top tips on how to remove an 'E'-clip?

and preferably how to do so without spearing a screwdriver through your hand?

there's one at the bottom of the clutch release arm which I need to remove so I can spin the arm around to the correct place.

would circlip pliers do the job, or is there a proper tool? I likes tools, I do

[thorlz]

have used very small circlip pliers at work before, normaly go for the screwdriver method.

Never speared my hand yet, but had plenty of "where the f*ck did that go monents"

would like to know what the "proper tool" is myself though

[Crooked]

Glad to hear you have escaped another near death experience !

Hope your back on the road soon

As Buckinghamshires finest roads are ripe for some more early morning fun

And there seems to be a resurgence in these http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17500&hl=

[MonkeyJim]

Cheers Nick. Yes two 'experiences' within a year - I think you'll be safer going for a ride without me

Finally some good news to report. Oh yeah baby, the R1 is back in action!!!!

Had another go yesterday evening and after about another half-dozen attempts at getting the pull-rod to connect properly with the release arm, whilst putting the clutch cover back on I finally managed it. There's a knack to it.

Got the clutch cover all bolted back on, re-fitted the clutch cable to the release arm.... and by the sweet baby Jebus the clutch lever felt normal again.

I cannot begin to tell you how I was.

I quickly got the exhaust back on and then came the moment of truth. Ignition on, take a deep breath and hit the starter

Vrooooooom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tested the clutch / gearbox with the bike on the stands and all seemed fine so I took it for a quick test just up and down the service road to the garages. Only got into 2nd gear briefly but clutch, gearbox, engine - everything seems fine. I haven't tested the 'slipper' part of the clutch yet but have no reason to suspect it shouldn't be just fine.

I will wait for a full road test until I have replaced the clutch plates [new ones on order] and the clutch cover gasket. Coolant system seems fine now, too.

Still no word from The Garage of Doom which is deeply disappointing, as each day goes by. Having been a loyal customer of theirs for 10+ years, it's a real kit in the nuts. I will be calling them again in the next few days. I'll either be sending him the bill for the parts, or getting it knocked off my next bill... that's if I ever go back. Depends how/if they respond.

All that aside, I have learnt a few things. Like how to fit and replace a clutch, which I've never done before

And that if you want a job doing properly, do it yourself

Gotta go, there's a Mr Burgess or somebody waiting for me on the phone, apparently they need a mechanic or something in Spain of all places. Better see what he wants, bloody timewasters grrr mutter grumble

[Ascalon]

Well done that man!

There is nothing like the satisfaction of having her fire up after she being assunder!

A

[originalracingsnake]

Any more news on the culpability issue?

[ronenige]

Don't want to worry anybody, but this stopped a P1 race at Oschesleben a couple of years ago. Check out behind the Clutch Basket, there's a sprocket back there that runs a chain onto the oil pump on later bikes. If the sprocket walks of the splines it's game over.

Good luck.

IIRC this also drives the waterpump , hence the coolant dumpage . keep yer finger's crossed its done nothing else

[MonkeyJim]

Don't want to worry anybody, but this stopped a P1 race at Oschesleben a couple of years ago. Check out behind the Clutch Basket, there's a sprocket back there that runs a chain onto the oil pump on later bikes. If the sprocket walks of the splines it's game over.

Good luck.

IIRC this also drives the waterpump , hence the coolant dumpage . keep yer finger's crossed its done nothing else

Thanks fellas. I was totally puzzled as to why it would dump the coolant as a result of what happened with the clutch - but that would explain it.

As it transpired, it didn't take much coolant [less than half a litre] to top up the rad and the expansion bottle.

Since I've fixed it, the engine has been run up to temp now half a dozen times, long enough for the fan to kick in each time, and so far everything seems to be ok.

Haven't given it a proper road test yet, but hopefully now the clutch is all back together [see below] it will be happening soon...

Any more news on the culpability issue?

Yes.

Matey from the garage called me on Saturday morning. He was deeply, deeply apologetic about the clutch issue [he realises how serious that *could* have been] and that it's taken him all week to get back to me.

As to why the various bits hadn't been fitted by them, he could give no explanation, other than it was obviously their error. Turns out his son had fitted the clutch, but he couldn't ask him why he hadn't done it properly, as since about 3 weeks ago, he no longer works for him.

Now, I've been going to this garage for 10+ years with cars, bikes etc and have known father and son all that time. His son has always worked in the garage and had an R1 track/race bike the same vintage as mine, he has worked on my bike loads of times over the years and there's never been a problem before.

I know these guys well and the plan was always that son would take on the business. he didn't go into the details of what happened but obviously it is something major. Anyway, he kept apologising and is keen to put things right. He's offered to compensate me by knocking the costs I've incurred off the next service or set of tyres, whatever I prefer. I've agreed to accept that and draw a line under it.

Anyway... onto some happier news. At the end of last week the new clutch pack arrived, along with the clutch cover gasket, so I set about putting it all back together..... properly!

when I took it apart I noticed that the friction plates were looking quite worn, and some of the steels were quite extensively 'blued' [is that the right term?] so I thought better safe than sorry and ordered a new set of each, that's 8 friction & 7 steels. I ordered them through Motorcycle Road and Race http://www.motorcycle-road-and-race.co.uk/ [cheers Adam for the excellent service!] and collected them Friday - they're above Jack Lilley Triumph which is just around the corner from Shepperton Studios.... where I happened to be on the very same day - what a coincidence

So I left the new plates soaking overnight in a lovely bath of Silkolene's finest and set to with the spanners on Sunday morning... I don't think it stopped raining once all morning so I was confined to the batcave, hence the crappy pics

and here's your starter for ten, the clutch centre nut tightened up to the correct torque, with the all-important tabbed lockwasher fitted

Sigma slipper clutch centre, ready and waiting

now fitted with the new friction and steel plates

Slipper clutch pressure plate fitted - remembering to fit the pull rod in the centre first!

Diaphragm spring in place, on spring seat this time [discovered that had also not been fitted!!]

and finally the spring retainer, with the bolts fitted, and correctly torqued in a cris-cross pattern

Alll that took about half an hour tops, from start to finish, including fitting a new clutch cable. Nothing really wrong with the old one, but I got a new genuine one off ebay for about a tenner ages ago, so it seemed like the right time to break it out.

It then took me the next however many hours to clean the old gasket off the clutch cover, and re-fit the engine cover so the clutch release arm worked properly. Grrrr mutter grumble feck arse etc

Eventually all sorted & fired her up, all seems fine, new clutch appears to be A-ok and no oil leaks from the cover. Ran out of time to re-fit the bodywork and TBH it was still pissing it down so the prospect of a road test wasn't filling me with joy.

Am hoping to get the bodywork back on sometime this week and get out on Saturday for a test ride

[originalracingsnake]

Result then. Happy days. Nice to have a thread like this concluded happily.

[paul8899]

I dont suppose you have any pics of the slipper clutch ? Which parts are changed from standard ?

Just a bit curious as to how these work

[bignige]

just read this .. phew.

we all make mistakes, its how there resolved that sorts the men from the boys.

you have the patience of a saint!

[MonkeyJim]

I dont suppose you have any pics of the slipper clutch ? Which parts are changed from standard ?

Just a bit curious as to how these work

The Sigma one I have is a direct replacement of the OE clutch centre. It uses the original clutch basket [see pics at start of thread] and uses the OE diaphragm spring - apparently these are uncommon, most bikes use coil springs.

This is what the complete unit looks like [with friction and steels already fitted]

and with the outer pressure plate removed

My basic understanding is that when the rear wheel speed exceeds the engine speed, the slipper unit allows the clutch centre to rise up slightly on ramps, allowing the clutch pack to separate, in much the same way as pulling the clutch lever. Except it does it automatically.

before i get totally flamed for giving a less-than-perfect description of how they work, here's the official blurb, courtesy of Neil Spalding no less*

http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutch.html

http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipper-clutch-faq.html

Mine is a Sigma, but I thinkmost of them [suter, STM, surflex, Yoyodyne etc etc] seem to operate in the same way

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/motorcycle_slipp...utch_operat.htm

http://www.suterclutch.com/slipperclutch.html

http://www.hmstm.com/technology.htm

I also found this bit of vid which might help explain how they work I had a quick scoot and found this vid

Hope that helps

*PS when I had the recent 'issue' with the clutch, I phoned Sigma to get some independent advice. Neil Spalding answered the phone, he couldn't have been more helpful and informative. what a top fella

[fran9r]

Neil Spalding answered the phone, he couldn't have been more helpful and informative. what a top fella

His Moto GP books, and writing in the race engine mag, is great too. Top stuff and worth seeking out.

[peter30]

It then took me the next however many hours to clean the old gasket off the clutch cover, and re-fit the engine cover so the clutch release arm worked properly. Grrrr mutter grumble feck arse etc

I refer the right honourable gentleman to my Barnett clutch conversion(supplied by your goodself?) in this here forum. If you did follow my snippet about the clutch arm alignment, my humble apologies!

http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7523

[MonkeyJim]

I refer the right honourable gentleman to my Barnett clutch conversion(supplied by your goodself?) in this here forum. If you did follow my snippet about the clutch arm alignment, my humble apologies!

http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7523

Ha, I only *wish* I had seen this!! Didn't cross my mind to have a look at that. The Haynes manual is uncharacteristically unhelpful, it merely says to have the release arm 'pointing backwards' or something.

Annoyingly, when I first did a dry run re-assembly [before new clutch pack] getting the cover back on so the release arm was in the right place wasn't too bad. It took a lot more goes the second time around.

having just re-read your thread, there clearly is a great deal of truth is the old saying 'great minds think alike'

yours

mine

uncanny!!!!!!!

[MonkeyJim]

Am hoping to get the bodywork back on sometime this week and get out on Saturday for a test ride

well here's the final installment and I'm pleased to report it looks like the story has a happy ending

I did get the bodywork back on and went out for a rather tentative first road test on Saturday, in between the downpours. Fuck me it was bloody freezing though, I did wonder if were actually still in January, not May.

Anyway I took it very, very steady for about 25 miles, being extra nice'n'easy on the engine, clutch and gearbox. I stopped a couple of times to make sure the clutch cover was oil tight, and the coolant and engine oil where still where they were supposed to be. [ie. not in with each other, or on the floor under the bike]

I stopped for a cuppa and smoked a roll-up, reflecting on my workmanship, and what might have been, had the clutch failure happened on a bend. At 140.

Then I fucking gave it the berries* for every single one of the 25 miles home, like I was leading the TT. On a bike I'd just stolen.

It seems that the natural balance of the universe has been restored. Mmmmmmm baby

here's the R1, back in all her glory, cooling down after an ossum^TM ride

All's well that ends well

Cheers fellas, it's been emotional.

* © Fred Gassit