DocJohn Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Right. I'm currently in the process of dropping the motor out of the Supermoto for a rebuild before the season starts. The problem? The swingarm pivot bolt is seized. Solid. I've had a load of penetrating oil on there (WD40 and Halfords "Shock and Unlock"), and have worked my way up to a 4lb lump hammer with no success. I've tried with and without the engine bolts in the motor. The bolt head is captive in the frame, so I can't get any rotation on the bolt to help things. Anyone any suggestions before I set fire to the bike and push it in a lake? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 warm the pin up then throw water on it do this a few times,each time after blowing the water off,re spray the wd40,not to much as it can cach fire,this eventualy un lock the pin with out the need for mr big hammer and mrs damaged pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will#224 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I personally think plus gas is better than the above mentioned anti seize agents, if that didn't work i'd try some heat, your likely to need new bearings anyway, the other alternative is to press it out, Maybe with a vice, i had a yz125 with a very stuck linkage bolt, i tried all the above and the press worked however it cracked the ally linkage in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blow_away Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Doc, is any of the swing arm pivot bolt exposed? If so, put a load of WD40 or whatever in those places. Can you lie the bike down and let the penetrating fluid soak in overnight? I used to free stuck seat posts from mountain bike frames using Coke, but I've never tried it on a motorbike. ISTR you need full fat Coke, not diet. Your other weapon is heat, but you need to know the layout to make sure you are not melting anything important! Last resort will be to weld a big nut or similar to the end of the pivot to give you something to grip and turn. again you need to know the layout as the heat transfer from welding might destroy a seal or two Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Doc, is any of the swing arm pivot bolt exposed? If so, put a load of WD40 or whatever in those places. Can you lie the bike down and let the penetrating fluid soak in overnight? I used to free stuck seat posts from mountain bike frames using Coke, but I've never tried it on a motorbike. ISTR you need full fat Coke, not diet. Your other weapon is heat, but you need to know the layout to make sure you are not melting anything important! Last resort will be to weld a big nut or similar to the end of the pivot to give you something to grip and turn. again you need to know the layout as the heat transfer from welding might destroy a seal or two Best of luck Nut on one end, captive head in the frame on the other. I have got several cans of penetrating oil in round it, and open up the gaps between swingarm/heads/back of engine etc. with a screwdriver to get it in round there as much as possible - this has been going on daily since the weekend! I'm going to try and borrow a blow-lamp and see if heat helps, but it'll must likely lunch all the bearings and seals - oh well... -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I personally think plus gas is better than the above mentioned anti seize agents, if that didn't work i'd try some heat, your likely to need new bearings anyway, the other alternative is to press it out, Maybe with a vice, i had a yz125 with a very stuck linkage bolt, i tried all the above and the press worked however it cracked the ally linkage in the process. I'll look into the plus gas - not heard of it before, cheers! -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 just had an idea,get a large impact driver and try this on the bot,as the impact driver is a realy usfull tool on stuk bolts on d nuts.and dont be scared to smake fuck out of it,as long as the soket is in good condition it will transfer all the foecr of the hammer to the bolt. use plus gas at work,over rated shit,wd40 just as good.plus we have the gas aks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 just had an idea,get a large impact driver and try this on the bot,as the impact driver is a realy usfull tool on stuk bolts on d nuts.and dont be scared to smake fuck out of it,as long as the soket is in good condition it will transfer all the foecr of the hammer to the bolt. use plus gas at work,over rated shit,wd40 just as good. Cheers Sie - the nut is off no problems, it's the bolt that is stuck solid - nothing to get an impact driver on! -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 dount laugh but when i use to be in the mining game,you were told to shout at it,and here is the story..... when bolts get stuck,(im not going in to the oxidation proses),it is usualy due to shit in btween the too serfaces,binding them up,well you can use harmonic sound genirator to losen bolts,they weld a tab to the bolt,then fix a offset crank moter thing that spins at fuck nows wot speed,and sends vibration down the pin,then bracks the bond. have see this tool used in meny aplications,the best ,to de stress a 40 ton steel ring after welding.was 4mm out of true,then 1/2 hour of sonic noise ,was only 1mm out of true,bloody nosey tool though and anly as big as top box of a bogger. so you could try a shout like fuck at it,and hope it budges it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 so you could try a shout like fuck at it,and hope it budges it. Chief, if shouting at the fucker would have moved this thing, it would be out by now - particularly if swearing is a factor. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy sie Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 hydrolic bearing puller with arms hooked round the frame,then push the pin throuh,sould work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taqman Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 OK check I've got theis straight Bolt is stuck in frame/swingarm Bolt cant turn because head is captive in frame - it has to slide out at least until head is clear of frame. Because I assume the swingarm actually moves up and down then the bolt must be siezed in the frame and/ or the inner races of the swingarm bearings. Heating the pin will expand it this may not help as it will tighten it up How about putting the nut back on just so it is flush with the bolt end to protect the threads then try plumbers freeze spray - you need to flood the area you want to cool with it and keep it there so wrapping something (rag) around the swingarm to frame gap and squirting under the rag - when you see frost on the end of the bolt you will know it's getting bloody cold Then a good Thrap and if you're lucky it may let go. Just a suggestion when everything else seems to have failed Taq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2moto Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 How long has the bolt been in? If it's been there for several years it could be that it's deformed. I've seen this before, particularly on Ducatis. The way we got them out is to use a large bearing puller to put pressure on the nut end of the bolt. Crank it as much as you possibly can and then leave it over night. If in the morning it still hasn't released, give it a few more turns or as much as you can and then leave it again for a few hours. Eventually, this has always worked. It is indeed has deformed, you'll want to get a new pivot bolt. Heating the pivot bolt is wrong as someone's already pointed out. Freezing the bolt will help but it's not easy to do effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Have a word with Millemille. He`s quite up on this galvanic corrosion stuff, reckon he might be able to point you in the direction of some magic ointment that will free it up. And what mystical, magical, high-falootin' technical solution does the big man come up with....? Take a 4lb sledge hammer and lamp the living shit out of the drift and the pin will come out. Epic. Could you dumb it down a bit for me...? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Heat the nut. Get a small gas blowjob ... torch sorry. you can get the ones about the size of a pen and evenly(ish) heat the nut. The differential expansion helps release the nut. If youve already killed most of the nut you can get special sokets thet cut into the nut and llift at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Doc Seems to me that you are under-utilising the resources available to you. Your better half is a ladies front bottom doctor is she not? The kind of medico known for amassing a collection of barabaric medical implements designed to grip and extract items from inaccesable spots through eye-wateringly tight apertures and generally with a handshake that can mould cold steel and the compunction of a rattlesnake? Is the answer to your woes not sharing breakfast with you over the table (which no doubt is still covered with that fucking hideous psychadelic table cloth you inadvertantly exposed to public ridicule in a past post)? Are you mental? Let an obstetrician work on my bike....? Bearing in mind that the sort of tools they feel are appropriate for the delicate work of extracting a newborn child from a womans most delicate areas are these things... ...one can only guess what tool they would use for extracting a rusty swingarm bolt! A Bagger 288 maybe...? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx6rrob Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 And what mystical, magical, high-falootin' technical solution does the big man come up with....? Epic. Could you dumb it down a bit for me...? -John Get it done!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Ok - update. I employed the delicate "Milhinch" technique today, and something gave. Best case scenario - the pivot bolt has started to shift. Worse case scenario - it's still stuck in the engine, and I've bent the frame with a sledgehammer. I'm soaking the whole thing in more penetrating oil before I have another go... -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Update 2: Drift just snapped. So i've clipped myself full-bore on the hand with a 4lb sledge. It doesn't look pretty... -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark/Foggy Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Awww Bless, John has hurt his hammer, Bad John. Get well soon John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will#224 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Ouch, i've seen doctors with Hammers and Pliers being used on the human body. It wasn't pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Update 2: Drift just snapped. So i've clipped myself full-bore on the hand with a 4lb sledge. It doesn't look pretty... -John Should you be let loose with tools? Sounds like a hazard to me. Last time I was home I was working on the bike using a soft faced hammer, trying to loosen something, when my lad walked in, started talking to me, 10 seconds later I've got a cartoon thumb and he's pissing himself laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Should you be let loose with tools? Sounds like a hazard to me. Tools operating hammers ends in casualty who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatman Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Also your doing it all wrong. You need to get a mate to hold the drift while you hit it with the hammer. Having both hands to hold the hammer with gives you much more control, and if you miss you wont get the same feeling of pain, the swearing emitted will be exactly the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocJohn Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Doc - did you do as I suggested and buy the Haynes manual? Yes - they make it look suspiciously easy, as usual Have you made sure that you've got all of the flimflammery that holds the swingarm pivot pin in place removed? Yes Did you support the frame on blocks of wood when the bike was on its' side? The express purpose of which is to prevent you bending the frame when you clout the pivot pin....... Yes Do you think I stand more or less of a chance of banging this bastard out now that I have most likely got a broken hand, but am angry as hell...? I'm back off to the garage... -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeeTeeArr Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 I've recently been using window cleaning spray for freeing off seized bolts, it seems to clean out the crap rather than lubricate around the crap.I don't know whether you'll get any penetration through without being able to move the bolt head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx6rrob Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 What kind of shonky 3rd world medical school did you go to? Anyone with a smattering of the basest medical knowledge understands that highly concentrated irrational anger foccused on an inanimate object hyper-stimulates the ursine gland..... ....and, as we all know, hyper-stimulation of the ursine gland results in a short burst of muscular-skeletal enhancement.... .....other wise known as *STRENGTH OF A BEAR*. And when strength of a bear occurs no inanimate object, no matter how recalcitrant, stands a chance! When I broke my thumb with a copper faced Thor hammer all I wanted to do was run around like a headless chicken and throw up?.... I think I may have glandular issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 I give this thread a haynes manual one thumb comedy approval rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx6rrob Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 I give this thread a haynes manual one thumb comedy approval rating Bastidge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronenige Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Update 2: Drift just snapped. So i've clipped myself full-bore on the hand with a 4lb sledge. It doesn't look pretty... -John Hammer rash is not a pretty sight , do you know anyone that can give you one of them nerve killing injections in the hand ?, a bit like the bloke on the telly the other night Have you tried semtex ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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