morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Well finally found a new project to keep my need for messing about with bikes.. Bought an Aprilia RS250 off evilBay in really good condition... Can't say how much as I have upset two people after I told them! Will just say it was bloody cheap for its condition! The idea is to build a modern version of the RS and make look more like the final 250cc GP bikes. Possibly using a Honda RSW250 set of bodywork or a Tyga fairing and Honda Seat unit. Planned changes are more modern forks with radial mount calipers and 280mm discs at the front. GP 250's use 275's but the forks are way too expensive. So as a compromise a set of Kawasaki ZX6R forks will be used possibly with Bitubo 25mm internals if they fit.. ISR rear caliper obviously and possibly a pair of the small 6 piston radial mount calipers too. Bitubo fully adjustable shock with hydraulic preload and high and low speed damping. Tyga pipes one per side not the stacked type. Fahron race tune with O ring grooves cut in the heads and cylinders for better sealing. Hope to get about 70 to 75BHP. Beg or steal some magnesium 250 race bike size wheels. Target weight without fuel is about 110KG anything less will be a bonus. As that would be a 30KG saving anyway. So to fund this I have a full set of almost new RS250 bodywork for sale and a pair of Arrow pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reservoircogs Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Me likey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banoffee Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Me likey too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 yeah that should give you hours of fun.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trident_special Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reservoircogs Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 something satisfying in using a nice straight example too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Bought an Aprilia RS250 off evilBay in really good condition... Nice Mk1 I spy... Carbon fibre (optional) front mud guard Braided lines DEP spannies Gilles rearsets Panels look to be in good nick, so that's a bonus... I know that you know your apples, but if there's any info that I can pass over to you about RS250's, then I'm more than happy to do so... Planned changes are more modern forks with radial mount calipers and 280mm discs at the front. GP 250's use 275's but the forks are way too expensive. So as a compromise a set of Kawasaki ZX6R forks will be used possibly with Bitubo 25mm internals if they fit.. Yup, the ZX6R fork swap's been done already, so there shouldn't be too many worries with that... ISR rear caliper obviously and possibly a pair of the small 6 piston radial mount calipers too. Bitubo fully adjustable shock with hydraulic preload and high and low speed damping. Tyga pipes one per side not the stacked type. Nice... I'd be interested in a rear caliper, myself, once you've sorted it out. The stock item is rubbish (and heavy) Fahron race tune with O ring grooves cut in the heads and cylinders for better sealing. Hope to get about 70 to 75BHP. Start at the bottom-end first... You need a good set of cases, a trued and welded-up crank (it'll just twist itself otherwise) before looking at the top-end... Q. Any thoughts on the power-valves yet? Some of the track people get rid of them completely, but there's plenty of options... Strengthend centres, complete billet power-valves (that's what I use), etc... That'll narrow your options on the power-valve control/SAPC options... I've got a selection of ignition boxes (I've got one of each, inc. all the 'kit' SAPC's), but there's fully programmable options available now. Beg or steal some magnesium 250 race bike size wheels. Target weight without fuel is about 110KG anything less will be a bonus. As that would be a 30KG saving anyway. You can certainly get Marchesini's for a Mk2 and BST have toyed with the idea of carbon rims for a while (but have never had enough firm orders to go ahead) Getting the weight down can be an issue as some of the 'road' parts are very heavy, for what they are. So to fund this I have a full set of almost new RS250 bodywork for sale and a pair of Arrow pipes. Gimme a shout on the Arrows, if they're clean... Ta G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Gobe... The pipes are not DEP's I dont think as they are not stamped DEP. They have the DEP silencers on them but the folder full of reciepts had Arrow exhausts so I assume they are Arrow ones will look closer when I get a chance but what ever they are they are clean. The bottom end would be trued and welded anyway. Ron uses better bearings than OEM anyway and I was looking at some ceramic bearings to fit throughout the motor anyway. Was thinking about using a full Zeeltronic ignition and powervalve controller. I can get Tyga billet powervalves but not looked at the powervalve options yet. I can get a good deal from Sylvia at Marvic so that may be one wheel option. There will not be much if any road stuff left on the bike. So weight loss will be slightly easier... Bodywork options have opened up a bit too.... I have a contact who can get genuine Aprilia RSA250 2009 bodywork. Not sure how expensive or how hard it will be to fit, but as they are not being used anymore the supplier will let a few out of the door now. Would love to find the supplier for the KTM 250FRR bodywork. I think Fab Tech made the swingarms for the KTM's but bit too rich for me even though I know Mark at Fab Tech and may get a deal. IF anyone is up for building a GP2 type bike using a Ilmor GP chassis and possibly a Triumph 675 Motor let me know... I know where there are a couple of Ilmor Moto GP Chassis sitting waiting for a project. OK will not be cheap but would be a true one off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Gobe... The pipes are not DEP's I dont think as they are not stamped DEP. They have the DEP silencers on them but the folder full of reciepts had Arrow exhausts so I assume they are Arrow ones will look closer when I get a chance but what ever they are they are clean. Erm? Hokey dokey. I don't think that they're Arrow pipes then... Arrow pipes are stamped on the expansion chambers and on the end-cans. I can't see from the picture, but the mounting bracket/clamps are wrong as well, assuming that they're original. Arrow pipes are mild steel as well, but it's not unusual to see them re-painted with a splash of 'B&Q black', as they rust at the slightest hint of rain. The trouble is that, a lot of cans and expansion chambers get swapped about, so there's a lot of mix and match bits on bikes :| The bottom end would be trued and welded anyway. Ron uses better bearings than OEM anyway and I was looking at some ceramic bearings to fit throughout the motor anyway. Nice, I'd be interested to hear what you turn up Was thinking about using a full Zeeltronic ignition and powervalve controller. I can get Tyga billet powervalves but not looked at the powervalve options yet. Nice one... Are the same as the 'Cougar Red' items? I've been running their heads and valves in mine. I can get a good deal from Sylvia at Marvic so that may be one wheel option. There will not be much if any road stuff left on the bike. So weight loss will be slightly easier... Q. Have you been onto the RGVForum? 'Thorsten' and 'Grendal' are the people to talk to about 'drastic' diet programs for the RS250. Bodywork options have opened up a bit too.... I have a contact who can get genuine Aprilia RSA250 2009 bodywork. Not sure how expensive or how hard it will be to fit, but as they are not being used anymore the supplier will let a few out of the door now. Would love to find the supplier for the KTM 250FRR bodywork. I think Fab Tech made the swingarms for the KTM's but bit too rich for me even though I know Mark at Fab Tech and may get a deal. There's some 'pattern' RSA parts starting to feed out here and there (there's a couple of projects on the boil at the moment). Getting a sub-frame sorted and getting the unit to line-up isn't an issue, as the real headache comes if/when you want to try and get 'the look' with the under-seat pipework. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybewan Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Oooh now this sounds very very interesting.... Will be keeping an eye on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deviant Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Sounds interesting Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Will look into the pipes. I know they are not stock and just found another bit of paper with Nikon exhaust details... Either way want to sell them and get some side by side Tyga pipes or ask Hank Bacon nicely and have him make me some pressure formed ones as he used to make some of the factory 125GP exhausts and gets good power from his pipes, Just he stopped making them about 4 years ago and I am not sure if he still has his kit at home. Not worried about an under seat exhaust to be honest. But it seems there are a few bodywork options available. Been on the RGV forum. Not seen much as I have just got the bike and still thinking about what can be done. Info on the Kawasaki fork swap would be helpful though.... any links??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I'll see what I can did out on the fork swap... I can picture the bike (RS250 - obv. - With a McWilliams Rep' paint, dry clutch and Kwaka forks...) It'll just take a bit of searching. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si.likes.guiness Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 your new project sounds familier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 your new project sounds familier Just has to be done really...... Nice project to do and makes a change for me too.Will have to get them both on track at the same time.... Possibly a few more too....Mini trackday 250GP. Pipes sold. Possibly the bodywork too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 If you decide to do anything with the swing-arm, then gimme a shout... Those panels will sell no worries at all, as clean ones are like 'rockin' horse poo'. Don't be tempted to sell the tank though (unless you want a larger Mk2 tank) as getting a replacement is a bit of a nightmare. Oh yes, before I forget... Top (RS250) Tip of the day: Remove the tank or get a quick-release fuel valve sorted out. The standard/OE taps are well known for leaking (badly), which'll just flood the carbs and (if it's sat around for a while) will just gum up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si.likes.guiness Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 will be good to see when our little strokers are finished,and well played for doing a 250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 If you decide to do anything with the swing-arm, then gimme a shout... Those panels will sell no worries at all, as clean ones are like 'rockin' horse poo'. Don't be tempted to sell the tank though (unless you want a larger Mk2 tank) as getting a replacement is a bit of a nightmare. Oh yes, before I forget... Top (RS250) Tip of the day: Remove the tank or get a quick-release fuel valve sorted out. The standard/OE taps are well known for leaking (badly), which'll just flood the carbs and (if it's sat around for a while) will just gum up. Will sort out a dry brake for the tank.. But not selling that as it is brand new too.... All the bodywork looks almost new too... What do you think the fairing, seat unit and fairing mount are worth? There is one scratch on the fairing upper. The bike was a cat c write off and had been rebuilt with brand new parts... No one bid on it so I got it at the reserve which was nice and low...... If I am lucky most of the parts sold will pay for the new bits... The Kawasaki front end inc wheel, new discs, radial mount calipers, forks and jokes were £250.00. Just need to sort that out and then sell the front out of the bike to subsidise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Will sort out a dry brake for the tank.. But not selling that as it is brand new too.... All the bodywork looks almost new too... What do you think the fairing, seat unit and fairing mount are worth? There is one scratch on the fairing upper. I've seen Mk1 seat unit (especially the pillion covers) go for silly money (shame it doesn't look like you've got that bit). There's easily got to be £200-250+ for the fairing as a set. If you include the mirrors (a generic Aprilia item, but they do sell from time to time) and the headlight (a pest to buy), then that might just appeal to someone that's putting a track bike back onto the road(?) NB. You can fit Mk1 panels to a Mk2, but you need the sub-frame to be swapped over and the front bracket to mount the headlight (sorting the clocks take a bit more work). The bike was a cat c write off and had been rebuilt with brand new parts... No one bid on it so I got it at the reserve which was nice and low...... If I am lucky most of the parts sold will pay for the new bits... Q. Have you check the engine cradle? It's quite common that they'll start to develop a few small cracks (in the event of a spill) near the radiator mount, engine mounts, etc The frames are pretty strong (and heavy) so there's few worries there. The Kawasaki front end inc wheel, new discs, radial mount calipers, forks and jokes were £250.00. Just need to sort that out and then sell the front out of the bike to subsidise it. Mk1 front ends aren't as desirable as the Mk2, but again, it'll still sell... especially if you've got a set of wheels and spacers to offer as well. The MK1 runds a slightly narrower rim, but that doesn't stop people wanting spares for the track. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayRC3045 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 i like this project, would be intrested to see what invovled in getting it upto 70/75bhp i hope your keeping it 250cc mr power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks Gobe.. Thrown my self in the deepend with this... Been offered £300 for the bodywork inc Fairing mount. So that is good. Still have the headlight so and mirrors so a few quid for those would also help. Anything I get for the front end is good. The sale of the pipes has covered the cost of the Tyga pipes anyway and £300.00 will almost cover a new fairing and seat unit. Just got to get Gavin at GIA in notts to sort out the subframe. Hope mates rates apply after all the work I have sent his way...LOL The engine cradle looks like new too so who had this has done a really good job of getting it repaired. Got receipts for new barrels, pistons and powervalves too. Yes it will stay a 250cc bike and 70BHP is supposed to be quite easy to get. Will see if Ron has a few more little tricks up his sleeve. He likes to do some odd things from time to time.. Honda RS125 liners in an old Yamaha 250LC pre power valve and that had stupid power. Supposed to be about 65BHP. So will let him just work his magic and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert23 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks Gobe.. No worries fella Thrown my self in the deepend with this... Been offered £300 for the bodywork inc Fairing mount. So that is good. Still have the headlight so and mirrors so a few quid for those would also help. Anything I get for the front end is good. I'd be tempted to fire the headlight and the mirrors (together?) on eBay... RS250 owners are never too fussed about the mirrors, but as I've said, headlights can go for a good few quid. The mirrors are exactly the same Part No. on the early RSV Mille models, so you might want to mention that, should you advertise 'em(?) The engine cradle looks like new too so who had this has done a really good job of getting it repaired. Got receipts for new barrels, pistons and powervalves too. Nice one! That'll save you a good few quid... Yes it will stay a 250cc bike and 70BHP is supposed to be quite easy to get. Will see if Ron has a few more little tricks up his sleeve. He likes to do some odd things from time to time.. Honda RS125 liners in an old Yamaha 250LC pre power valve and that had stupid power. Supposed to be about 65BHP. So will let him just work his magic and see what happens. A-ring-a-ding-ding-dooooooooo (it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayRC3045 Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Yes it will stay a 250cc bike and 70BHP is supposed to be quite easy to get. good man ,i would think 70/75 is possable steves NSR makes 74 ,and thats still a 250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 good man ,i would think 70/75 is possable steves NSR makes 74 ,and thats still a 250 Thanks...... Hate to think I would "cheat" to get power using a 270cc kit or a 300cc kit which doesnt rev as high... It has to be a screaming 250..... Just need to see how much more I can beg, borrow or steal. Just got a nice Ohlins steering damper as a freebie. Brand new never used...Just a couple of years old and sat in a box of bits... Pity I couldnt get hold of one of the Magnesium bodied and titianium piston ones knocking about in the race workshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomfoolery Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Rich, I beg you not to use those six-pots with the third piston hanging down below the radial mount. They look gash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Rich, I beg you not to use those six-pots with the third piston hanging down below the radial mount. They look gash. Are these OK?? Need to be small as the disc diameter will be about 280mm or possibly down to 270mm .... Just need offer the ones I have up to the forks. If I can run 275mm discs then they will be genuine 250gp size and the same Calipers used by Freddie Watz when he rode for Kurz Yamaha in the 250GPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 If nobody has the front end off you and it's sitting around gathering dust, and if somebody can tell me if the size of the yokes or the headstock bearings are the same as rs125's, then team north could probably use a firmer front with a bit more damping. Obviously, all costs involved in postage would be taken care of, but the coffers are pretty threadbare at the moment and the engine's not even running properly so I don't want to start promising things that I can't back up with cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 If nobody has the front end off you and it's sitting around gathering dust, and if somebody can tell me if the size of the yokes or the headstock bearings are the same as rs125's, then team north could probably use a firmer front with a bit more damping. Obviously, all costs involved in postage would be taken care of, but the coffers are pretty threadbare at the moment and the engine's not even running properly so I don't want to start promising things that I can't back up with cash. Not sure it would be much better than the one you have.... it is the Mark 1 front with one leg carrying the spring and the other the damping.... Hmmm...... Not great I feel...... But may sort something out if you think it will be better than you have, I may have to sell the calipers and wheel with discs to help keep Lou off my back or imminent divorce delayed for a few more weeks.... As I want to finish my project in time for a possible apperance at Anglesey....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Not sure it would be much better than the one you have.... it is the Mark 1 front with one leg carrying the spring and the other the damping.... Hmmm...... Not great I feel...... But may sort something out if you think it will be better than you have, I may have to sell the calipers and wheel with discs to help keep Lou off my back or imminent divorce delayed for a few more weeks.... As I want to finish my project in time for a possible apperance at Anglesey....... Do what you have to do then we'll haggle over the scraps. Let us know when you know, there's no hurry from this end at least. My guess is that the spring and damping rates are going to be a bit firmer than the 125, and as the springs are fixed into the bottom of the fork, then lets keep our fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Do what you have to do then we'll haggle over the scraps. Let us know when you know, there's no hurry from this end at least. My guess is that the spring and damping rates are going to be a bit firmer than the 125, and as the springs are fixed into the bottom of the fork, then lets keep our fingers crossed! OK....If you think the forks are better than the ones you have....No problem.. they are yours.... with the yokes obviously.. Cost. A couple of laps on the bike when it finally runs..... lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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