porter_jamie Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 At anglesey i was jacking the back up a few turns each session to try and get it to turn/hold a line better. it got better and better, but in the last session it was going from lock to lock on the power over some bumps. so questions to anyone with an early R1 1. do you use a steering damper on the track? 2. how much fork leg do you have poking out of the top yoke? (me approx 6mm, but i'm thinking of going a bit more, after getting damper) 3. do you run lots of rear ride height to get it to hold a line? and also there appears to be a bit of a 'cough' when i crack the throttle coming out of a bend, i have to be REALLY careful that it doesnt chime in with a massive bang. a bit like the cush drive is duff. (it isnt) any clues? (worn needles/needle jet maybe?) J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilchicken0 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 The trouble with a damper is it masks any problems with the suspension setup. I guess you've done the static sag and had a look at the setup from the mag. Watch yourself with getting the back harder and harder it makes the chances of a highside more likley and it might be the reason for the slapping as well. Consider taking it to a suspension specialist and maybe changing the shock for a different unit that be more "supple" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 ktech forks 9 springs, nitron shock 8.5 spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_R1 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 On the early R1, replacing the steering stem and yokes with the later injected version is the cheap update. I've got Promach on mine, and Harris do an nice (expensive) but adjustable set. I think the standard yokes are also a bit flimsy, especially the bottom one, you'll see most updated ones have three bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 At anglesey i was jacking the back up a few turns each session to try and get it to turn/hold a line better. it got better and better, but in the last session it was going from lock to lock on the power over some bumps. so questions to anyone with an early R1 1. do you use a steering damper on the track? 2. how much fork leg do you have poking out of the top yoke? (me approx 6mm, but i'm thinking of going a bit more, after getting damper) 3. do you run lots of rear ride height to get it to hold a line? and also there appears to be a bit of a 'cough' when i crack the throttle coming out of a bend, i have to be REALLY careful that it doesnt chime in with a massive bang. a bit like the cush drive is duff. (it isnt) any clues? (worn needles/needle jet maybe?) J 1. yes, on road and track. Essential for both IMHO 2. about 5-6mm, same as yours. I found that was sufficient to get the steering as quick as I wanted it, without going mad 3. No. rear ride height is standard. Darren @ MCT advised me against running anything too much more than standard, with the forks already dropped. When I took mine to MCT earlier this year, Darren initially returned the forks to standard height. I found it way too slow steering for my taste, especially at speed. it felt like an oil tanker again, like when I first rode it. So the forks went back to where they were, which is spot on for me. I find mine turns in fast enough and holds a line plenty well enough. I'm sure things could be improved with replacing the steering stem or upgrading the bottom yoke, but I have not found the need yet. as for the carb issue, sorry no idea mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtmbowen Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 It is difficult to get early R1s to stay neutral under power. This is made worse by the fact that they are actually quite slow steering. Additionally, with modern tyres, early R1s suffer quite badly from a lack of ground clearance. Its important to realise that these are different problems. If you continue to jack the back up - it will make it turn faster but at the expense of loosing rear end grip. Dropping the yokes down the forks reduces ground clearance as well: which I'm sure you've found is at a premium anyway! My early solution to both turn - in and holding a line was to fit Harris adjustable jokes to reduce the offset and the steering head angle. Ground clearance was never fully solved - I just ran as much ride height as possible - forks fully through the yokes, etc and fitted NRC engine cases and accepted that once they are down thats it - no more! A very effective later mod is to take the chassis to Sweary Bob at Spondon and have him jig the frame, cut the headstock out and re-weld at a steeper steering head angle, brace around the headstock and swinging arm and fill in the gear shift hole. Get him to cut off the original subframe and weld lugs on to take a bolt - on subframe. If you get him to copy the Virgin Yamaha 2004 geometry you get a very fast turning bike that doesn't understeer for just a couple of hundred quid: top value! Its worth fitting a 2003/4 swinging arm after that to help reduce the 'wind -up and release' effect you get when turning the bike fast at speed (needs a rear calliper mounting modification). These mods give you arguably the best 4-cylinder litre bike chassis available. Recommended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 It is difficult to get early R1s to stay neutral under power. This is made worse by the fact that they are actually quite slow steering. Additionally, with modern tyres, early R1s suffer quite badly from a lack of ground clearance. Its important to realise that these are different problems. If you continue to jack the back up - it will make it turn faster but at the expense of loosing rear end grip. Dropping the yokes down the forks reduces ground clearance as well: which I'm sure you've found is at a premium anyway! My early solution to both turn - in and holding a line was to fit Harris adjustable jokes to reduce the offset and the steering head angle. Ground clearance was never fully solved - I just ran as much ride height as possible - forks fully through the yokes, etc and fitted NRC engine cases and accepted that once they are down thats it - no more! yes, as standard I found my 4xv to be scarily slow steering, especially at the sort of speeds the R1 achieves so easily. Darren @ MCT advised that increasing rear ride height reduces rear end grip and can cause problems when trying to get the power down. the ground clearance problem can be solved with some decent rearsets. I've got harris ones on mine, I run them on a middle setting which puts them higher up & further back than the OE pegs, without being too hard on the old knees. I've had no issues with the engine cases or anything else decking out, must try harder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porter_jamie Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 thanks for the comments and info there chaps. i was wearing a hole in my right boot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtmbowen Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 The early R1's that were raced in superstock were never put on a motoliner jig and pressed so that the head angle steepend up a couple of degrees and they held a line with the power being wound on a whole lot better... ...no siree, Bob. Never happenend...nothing to see here, move along. No. And the person who started it doesn't work for Yamaha and the failure of early R1 frames in racing were just rumours. All the same. Under no circumstances should you buy an ex superstock 4XV. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter30 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Enthusiastic amateur view is if a 19 stone dead weight all over the front of the bike at uber flat Snetterton is finding waggly bars changing into 5th down Revett, then it needs a damper! Really good thread for reference when I get up to speed on track. From a numpty viewpoint though, I have a 190/55 on the back, preload at max and bump/compression 1 click out from hardest(all on standard damper) and the bike now stays in the right lane when exiting corners and Camier would take 3 laps to catch me up and lap me on his 09 BSB bike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morepower Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Mine is pretty sorted now.... 2000 R1. Triumph 675 fork springs....3 sets just happen to be sitting here so did the swap to try it.. they are a bit shorter but not so much that they top out before the forks fully extend. This quickens it up a little. Dropped the front 10mm and run 7.5w oil with 10mm less air gap. brings the damping back down from close to maximum to a few clicks up from minimum. Rear shock was stock at Anglesey and cadwell but now I have a 2006 rear shock which now lets me get on the power so much sooner and actually drive out of the corner. Slow corners were always horrible as getting on the power upset it too much but fast corners were OK.. now slow corners are great and fast corners are down to bottle for me.... The 06 rear shock does possibly need a but of work getting a bit more clearance between the reservoir and the swing are bracing. On my own it was not a problem but 2 up it was hitting and now I have a nice "engineered" dent in the bracing for a bit more clearance... The changes to the front made a huge difference. But if you do this then makesure youset up the rear and get a better firmer rear shock as the stock one is also way too soft and with the front sorted the rear really does limit the bike now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtmbowen Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Enthusiastic amateur view is if a 19 stone dead weight all over the front of the bike at uber flat Snetterton is finding waggly bars changing into 5th down Revett, then it needs a damper! Really good thread for reference when I get up to speed on track. From a numpty viewpoint though, I have a 190/55 on the back, preload at max and bump/compression 1 click out from hardest(all on standard damper) and the bike now stays in the right lane when exiting corners and Camier would take 3 laps to catch me up and lap me on his 09 BSB bike There is no way you should have your preload set to maximum. You need 12mm of static sag and if the compression damping is on max (or nearly) then that is way out or the shock is completely shagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.