Starting up with Lithium Batteries

[Evilchicken0]

The SB6 famously uses two small 12v batteries and ordinary ones die quite quickly. 

There's no electricity in my garage so I bought a DC to DC Optimate, a big caravan battery and a sack trolley. They didn't die as quickly.

Then lithium came in and when the last pair died I fitted a pair of Motobatt lithium (red print) batteries. Their CCA is higher than the last pair of standard Motobatts. 

But - is there a way to start the bike from cold ??? I turn on the ignition wait a while and try to start it but but the engine just isn't spinning fast enough. I stick jump cables on it and it starts but that's not going to help me if I'm out and about.

Suggestions .... 🤔🤔🤔

[jollygiant]

I have a lithium battery on my Mille and I turn he ignition on and flick the starter a few times without engaging it and when I had lights on it, I'd flash them a few times to 'warm' the battery and then tried firing it up. If was slow to turn I'd do it all again.


 

[Evilchicken0]

2 minutes ago, jollygiant said:

I have a lithium battery on my Mille and I turn he ignition on and flick the starter a few times without engaging it and when I had lights on it, I'd flash them a few times to 'warm' the battery and then tried firing it up. If was slow to turn I'd do it all again.

I've tried turning the lights on for a bit before but it's the same.

I put the batteries on charge tonigh. The charger flashed (to prep the batteries for charging) then the charger had no lights ... I'll check it tomorrow

[ssray]

I was going to say I'd read that putting the lights on for a bit warms the battery up a little and it works better, looks like you've tried that.

Could you ring up a optimate type plug on a power pack type battery? Use that initially to get it started 

[Johnno]

I have an 11 year old Lithium battery in my GSXR600.  I just hit it.  If it's a bit sad I whack it on charge for 30 to 45 mins and then hit it.  

[Evilchicken0]

I put the batteries on charge but other than the intial flashes to set the batteries up there are no leds showing. I assume they're charged - but after the the engine ran up I'd have thought they were charged anyway 

I'll email Motobatt and see what they say

[Johnno]

Mine has been stone motherless flat. Like, flat line _____________________.

30 mins on charge and BZzzZzZZZZZzz vroom.

 

[srad34]

I just switch the ignition on for 30 seconds before starting the CB5 which has a baby Shido lithium battery on it….seems to do the job 🫣

Edited August 22 by srad34

[dansp1]

I had a tiny undersized lithium battery on the sp, when cold pressing the starter button for a second warmed it up sufficiently that another attempt a few seconds later always fired it up

[Damnthistinleg]

It's always worth going through all of your battery connections and making sure everything is clean, free from oxidation and of course, nice and tight. Same goes for any engine/chassis earths.

You could have a fully-charged battery the size of a diesel/electric submarine's accumulator and it won't improve matters until you've dealt with any unwanted resistance on the connections.

[Calimero]

I've got an Aliant on my KTM, I always make sure I hit the kill switch. In winter as I do not use the bike I remove the battery and store it indoors.

[MonkeyJim]

generally I hear mixed things about motobatt;  they are sometimes referred to as motoshatt.

people seem to love them, or have problems with them.

I put a Shido lithium into the RC8R a few years ago, ironically replacing a motobatt lead-acid jobby.

it has been faultless and has never failed to start the RC8R which is no mean feat, given it's a whopping 600cc per cylinder and a mahoosive 13.5:1 compression which must be about as high as it ever gets on a production bike (?)

I just turn the ignition on and hit the starter,  it normally fires up straight on button.  

[Evilchicken0]

1 hour ago, MonkeyJim said:

generally I hear mixed things about motobatt;  they are sometimes referred to as motoshatt.

people seem to love them, or have problems with them.

I put a Shido lithium into the RC8R a few years ago, ironically replacing a motobatt lead-acid jobby.

it has been faultless and has never failed to start the RC8R which is no mean feat, given it's a whopping 600cc per cylinder and a mahoosive 13.5:1 compression which must be about as high as it ever gets on a production bike (?)

I just turn the ignition on and hit the starter,  it normally fires up straight on button.  

Yes the Bim is 13 or 13.5 compression ... posh pistons 

[Timbo S2]

Lithium on the BMW. Never a problem, put it on charge for a few hours every winter. 

[svingel]

Could it be an issue that they're wired in tandem or parallel ? (can't remember which on the Bim) 

[GSXR814]

On the road bike I turn on ignition, whack the full beam on for about 10 seconds and then fire her up, never had an issue in 4 years ish but it does get used quite a lot. 

I had a few Shido ones that would take a charge but wouldn't hold it for long so I ditched them. 

[Evilchicken0]

On 8/23/2024 at 10:16 PM, svingel said:

Could it be an issue that they're wired in tandem or parallel ? (can't remember which on the Bim) 

Parallel I think. Both traditional and lithium batteries are wired the same so I'm not sure why there would be a difference. The traditional batteries drop their charge - I kept them on the DC to DC trickle charger. These don't loose charge but it's no comfort if I can't start the bike from cold

[svingel]

My thinking was if the lithiums doesn't like being wired in that way? There's something with the lithium cells having to be "balanced" during charging. If the same applies during discharge, perhaps? I'm not an electrician, just picking up stuff that I've read 

[Damnthistinleg]

3 hours ago, svingel said:

My thinking was if the lithiums doesn't like being wired in that way? There's something with the lithium cells having to be "balanced" during charging. If the same applies during discharge, perhaps? I'm not an electrician, just picking up stuff that I've read 

Multiple (individual) cells should certainly be in balance when charging/discharging but it's not an issue when using more than one car/bike battery in parallel, as they will each have an internal BMS to manage their cells.

(Remember that a battery is simply group of individual cells in a convenient package).

[svingel]

4 minutes ago, Damnthistinleg said:

Multiple (individual) cells should certainly be in balance when charging/discharging but it's not an issue when using more than one car/bike battery in parallel, as they will each have an internal BMS to manage their cells.

(Remember that a battery is simply group of individual cells in a convenient package).

Thanks for clarifying 👍. I was literally just fubmling in the dark 

[Evilchicken0]

I checked them at 12.7v then after running the bike it's 13.2v. A day or so later it's still 13.2v

I bought one of those small jump-start units.

Motobatt haven't replied 

[svingel]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:29 PM, Evilchicken0 said:

I checked them at 12.7v then after running the bike it's 13.2v. A day or so later it's still 13.2v

I bought one of those small jump-start units.

Motobatt haven't replied 

Any chance of fitting just a single lithium, with enough cracking amps? And volts, of course.

[Evilchicken0]

1 hour ago, svingel said:

Any chance of fitting just a single lithium, with enough cracking amps? And volts, of course.

It would mean having the front subframe remade 

[svingel]

1 hour ago, Evilchicken0 said:

It would mean having the front subframe remade 

Hm, a bit impractical 

[Evilchicken0]

6 hours ago, svingel said:

Hm, a bit impractical 

The headlights come right back onto the batteries 

[trevb]

On 8/30/2024 at 11:56 PM, Evilchicken0 said:

It would mean having the front subframe remade 

I run a Shorai (LFX-14A2-BS12?) in my SB6. No need to mod anything, fits in one side of front subframe with a bit of padding. Not cheap unfortunately, especially if having to add cost of charger. I turn on the lights to warm it up. May be comparable in price to 2 x Motobatt?

[Evilchicken0]

3 hours ago, trevb said:

I run a Shorai (LFX-14A2-BS12?) in my SB6. No need to mod anything, fits in one side of front subframe with a bit of padding. Not cheap unfortunately, especially if having to add cost of charger. I turn on the lights to warm it up. May be comparable in price to 2 x Motobatt?

I'll have a look at them 👍

[426hemi]

Anti gravity do some small case lithium batteries with high cranking cca, not the cheapest batteries but they’re quality kit.

[mattyam]

just come across this regarding lithium batterries and it seems relevant to issues i were having. well potentiol issues, it may just be a trait of lithium batteries by the sound of it. my battery had ran flat, stone dead. i charged it and since then ive kept it rigged up to an optimate. i went to start yesterday, lazy, dash flashing ect acting as though theres insuficient charge. after a few attempts it burst into life with plenty of balls. i assumed the battery was dodgy.  this morning, repeated the proccess, same result. after a few goes, burst into life. my initial thoughts were old fuel. i drained and replaced that. does it hurt lithium batteries to get them hooked up to an optimate while not in use? mine is the optimate 4s

[Superdunc]

1 hour ago, mattyam said:

just come across this regarding lithium batterries and it seems relevant to issues i were having. well potentiol issues, it may just be a trait of lithium batteries by the sound of it. my battery had ran flat, stone dead. i charged it and since then ive kept it rigged up to an optimate. i went to start yesterday, lazy, dash flashing ect acting as though theres insuficient charge. after a few attempts it burst into life with plenty of balls. i assumed the battery was dodgy.  this morning, repeated the proccess, same result. after a few goes, burst into life. my initial thoughts were old fuel. i drained and replaced that. does it hurt lithium batteries to get them hooked up to an optimate while not in use? mine is the optimate 4s

Need a lithium battery specific charger.  Not sure if the optimate 4 is suitable