Which front brake radial master cylinder ?

[hollo]

Can anyone point me in the right direction ? .

I'm after upgrading the front brake master cylinder on my RC45 to a more modern and hopefully better radial one . I've no idea of what ratio is best , it's fitted with SP1 calipers  , so the standard 4 piston twin calipers. As it's a road bike it will also need to have the brake light switch  . As it's the brakes it's not something I'd skip quality on , so the obvious place to start is Brembo . Can anyone suggest which master cylinders I should be looking at ?

Thanks

Mike 

[coombehouse]

Brembo RCS is the easy option as the ratio is adjustable, it works fine & it has a mechanical brake light switch.

Most alternatives use a hydraulic switch in the banjo bolt & they need a fair amount of pressure to trigger which means most of the time the brake light won't illuminate.

[Phlik]

1 hour ago, hollo said:

Can anyone point me in the right direction ? .

I'm after upgrading the front brake master cylinder on my RC45 to a more modern and hopefully better radial one . I've no idea of what ratio is best , it's fitted with SP1 calipers  , so the standard 4 piston twin calipers. As it's a road bike it will also need to have the brake light switch  . As it's the brakes it's not something I'd skip quality on , so the obvious place to start is Brembo . Can anyone suggest which master cylinders I should be looking at ?

Thanks

Mike 

The radial master cylinder from a newer model blade or cbr600rr work well with those calipers, they're the same as fitted to the 954 and earlier cbr600rr.

I've got one on my track bike and I've tried it back to back with a brembo RCS and a hel master cylinder. No difference in performance between the three but the Honda master cylinder is a lot cheaper and doesn't have ridiculously priced levers (£175 for a replacement brembo lever)

[firebeast]

9 hours ago, coombehouse said:

Brembo RCS is the easy option as the ratio is adjustable, it works fine & it has a mechanical brake light switch.

Most alternatives use a hydraulic switch in the banjo bolt & they need a fair amount of pressure to trigger which means most of the time the brake light won't illuminate.

I had a double goodridge hydraulic switch on ap racing adjustable ratio gp master and it worked well enough, maybe not at the lightest of feather touches only . 

Other thing is if the light don't trip instantly and it does bother you, if its on road, just dab the rear a tiny bit, its not exactly difficult and would become 2nd nature after a while, 👍,,,  hardly an issue for track use either,,, 

[426hemi]

The brembo rcs doesn’t have a brake light switch, you need the corsa corta one for that.

[firebeast]

I do have a question, probably stupid mind, but what is your main complaint of the current master?  

I found when I went to sbs rs pads on my 02 9r, which has virtually the same caliper as the sp1/2, bar the pad mounting being different, it made a good enough difference on stopping power/feel, that unless your maybe on track, it wasn't bad on there either mind,, , I didnt feel the need to worry about it, as it was doing a good enough job now, as the pads were a lot better for my tastes than standard hh from anywhere and made me realise its as much about that choice than what's pushing the fluid.. 

Also, a standard oe radial master from say a Cbr600rr etc, might not make much difference when one man's chalk is another's cheese on power delivery and feel etc,,, 🤔

[EvilSpike]

As others have said a Brembo 19 RCS is the standard answer.

I use a Nissin radial from my '07 GSX-R 750 on mine. It was the one supplied by Suzuki in the recall and feels lovely mated to the SP1 calipers and Brembo discs. I'd already replaced the Suzukis front brake before the recall, hence why it was going spare.

I've got a 15mm diameter Braking clutch master cylinder that I am quite enamoured with, the Girls Racing Team at the Bol d'Or were using Braking master cylinders on their R1 and they seemed very happy with them so I thought I'd give it a go. It was about half the price of a Brembo unit once you've also bought the reservoir and bracket although the ratio is fixed. I'd happily try the 19mmm brake master cylinder if I didn't have the "free" Nissin.

Another option if you want to buy a UK manufactured product is Hel. They look lovely and the company themselves are very nice to deal with. They do a master cylinder which is machined from solid billet, has an adjustable ratio 19x 18, 19 or 20mm) and assembled in Exeter.  Not cheap, but rather lush.

Thinking about it, if you don't mind spending a few bob on it, I'd go down the Hel route.

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by EvilSpike

[TLRS]

My theory is that pads with more bite require less pressure in the braking system. Which might reduce flex in the brakesystem, giving better feel?

[hollo]

4 hours ago, firebeast said:

I do have a question, probably stupid mind, but what is your main complaint of the current master?  

I found when I went to sbs rs pads on my 02 9r, which has virtually the same caliper as the sp1/2, bar the pad mounting being different, it made a good enough difference on stopping power/feel, that unless your maybe on track, it wasn't bad on there either mind,, , I didnt feel the need to worry about it, as it was doing a good enough job now, as the pads were a lot better for my tastes than standard hh from anywhere and made me realise its as much about that choice than what's pushing the fluid.. 

Also, a standard oe radial master from say a Cbr600rr etc, might not make much difference when one man's chalk is another's cheese on power delivery and feel etc,,, 🤔

The brakes are OK and fine for the road , but nothing like any modern bikes and I feel could be made better . Agreed 99% of the time they are fine , but given the choice and for not too much money I'd rather have that 1% in reserve for that 'ow shit' moment which on the road is not normally your own fault.

Edited March 1, 2021 by hollo
me spol bad

[firebeast]

17 minutes ago, hollo said:

The brakes are OK and fine for the road , but nothing like any modern bikes and I feel could be made better . Agreed 99% of the time they are fine , but given the choice and for not too much money I'd rather have that 1% in reserve for that 'ow shit' moment which on the road is not normally your own fault.

So what pads have you tried or run with? 

[426hemi]

I have the sbs rs pads in the pfm's on my 9r and they are very good and brembo sc's on my mille and they are very good as well. upgrading the brakes is one of the first things i do on every one of my bikes.

[hollo]

1 hour ago, firebeast said:

So what pads have you tried or run with? 

I was planning on upgrading both the pads and master cylinder . I do not know what fitted at the moment.

[firebeast]

54 minutes ago, 426hemi said:

I have the sbs rs pads in the pfm's on my 9r and they are very good and brembo sc's on my mille and they are very good as well. upgrading the brakes is one of the first things i do on every one of my bikes.

I bet the pfm with rs pads is a great mix mate, i felt the difference as soon as I went up the road, they don't really need any bedding in either compared to standard hh. 

[firebeast]

Just now, hollo said:

I was planning on upgrading both the pads and master cylinder . I do not know what fitted at the moment.

In which case, it's well worth trying pads first to see how much it helps, as if you do both at the same time you won't get a feel for what's worked more? 

I haven't tried the brembo pads, but you can likely pick up the sbs rs pads for not too much money if you shop about,,, cross reference the sbs website for which pad fits on which caliper,as its likely to be a few bikes with the same pad,, then go shopping for all the models it fits as I found a decent variation between differing bikes.. You can do the same for any brand BTW, 👍

[426hemi]

I remember when ebc released the hh pads and I thought they were great but I think they are crap now, there’s some incredible pads now but hh aren’t them, I’ve used various sbs and they’ve all been great and the same for brembo sc’s.

[TLRS]

Nissin also do a nice billet m/c, if you want something a bit less obvious then brembo.

[426hemi]

9 hours ago, sev said:

Yes it does. Only the rcs clutch doesn’t.

the rcs is the roadbike upgrade path.

the billet ones don’t have provisions for switches as they’re the full fat race ones.  

All 3 of my rcs don’t have brake light switches.

[426hemi]

9 minutes ago, sev said:

if you  look underneath on the bodies there are two wee features to take a push in brake light switch. You can buy the RCS supplied with or without.

The billet radial master cylinders don't have that feature in them.  The bar clamp is also wider in the centre on the billet ones as well, rather than the rcs one which has parallel width on the bar clamp.

When ordering mine I’d never seen an option to order it with a switch, learn something every day and it’s not 9 yet 👍

[coombehouse]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:34 AM, firebeast said:

I had a double goodridge hydraulic switch on ap racing adjustable ratio gp master and it worked well enough, maybe not at the lightest of feather touches only . 

Other thing is if the light don't trip instantly and it does bother you, if its on road, just dab the rear a tiny bit, its not exactly difficult and would become 2nd nature after a while, 👍,,,  hardly an issue for track use either,,, 

It was always an issue for me as I only ride on the road. I never use the rear brake due to an injury & besides that, remembering to use the rear is something I could do without at my age.

[hollo]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions , As per Phlik suggestion , I've gone with a newer fireblade master cylinder . It just seems the easier way of trying for an upgrade and being a Honda OEM part, the brake light switch comes with it.

Once things warm up and I get chance to get into my garage ,  I'll fit it and report back.

Mike .

[Gixxerthou]

I use one of these with my R6 caliper setup on the Gixxer.

https://accossato.com/en/15-accossato-radial-master-cylinders-motorcycle-scooter-offroad

Highley recommended

[dansp1]

I have an ISR radial, 5/8 bore on the SP infinitely adjustable, coupled with ISR discs and SBS pads the brakes are fantastic

[Toneale]

10 hours ago, dansp1 said:

I have an ISR radial, 5/8 bore on the SP infinitely adjustable, coupled with ISR discs and SBS pads the brakes are fantastic

Another fan of ISR stuff here.

I ihave the monoblock 6 pot ISR's on my fireblade (plus duscs and radial m/cyl and have just put some sbs pads in. 

What calipers do you run with that m/cyl disc combo?

[dansp1]

Stock sp1 nissins

[Adamsp1]

13 hours ago, dansp1 said:

I have an ISR radial, 5/8 bore on the SP infinitely adjustable, coupled with ISR discs and SBS pads the brakes are fantastic

Hi Dan. Any pics of your sp to look at?

[dansp1]

No detailed pics, im still confined to quarters, no idea when or if I'll be able to drive again  ill be breaking the sp for parts if im able to get up to it and wield some tools