Annaz Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Whilst riding today, in a sensible fashion of course, my speedo started dislaying random speed values intermittantly and the rev counter needle was wobbling a lot. The bike gradually ran rougher and rougher then after I'd stopped for fuel it wouldn't start. There was a ticking sound (like the noise the fuel pump makes when it primes but quieter and from the relay and cdi area). I trailered it home in the end. I'm thinking a, fooked alternator, b, dodgey connection c, other electrical enigma Any help appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxr renegade Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 When you turn the ignition on, what number does the rev counter flick to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 When you turn the ignition on, what number does the rev counter flick to? It doesn't move at all. I turn on ignition and mostly it lights up as normal, hit the start switch and the fuel pump clicks, press the start button and it gives a little soleniod click (like a low battery) then nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Does it turn over at all then? Sorry im a little lost in your description. When it was running rough, was it spluttering at all? Test battery voltage, could be knackered.I would start with this 1st. Grab a multi meter and test for 12.4Volts+ Any less than that and you need to charge it. If the bike starts after this test the output,again multimeter and you are looking for 14.1-14.9 volts on your model.Any less then look at alternator.Put lights on high as well when you do the test.If battery is more that 3 years old it might be best to replace it for piece of mind. A clicking when you push starter could be stuck starter motor, but i doubt its this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Does it turn over at all then? Sorry im a little lost in your description. When it was running rough, was it spluttering at all? Doesn't turn over at all. Tried a bump and it fired up and ran like a bag of spanners for a while, with no reaction to any throttle twisting, then faded out and stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Take it the main plug on the left is ok. After that is the reg rec ok. Connections are another known week area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Doesn't turn over at all. Tried a bump and it fired up and ran like a bag of spanners for a while, with no reaction to any throttle twisting, then faded out and stopped. Battery. No spark to make it fire/turnover. Weak spark wont ignite fuel + runs like shite. Open throttle with weak spark wont help it.. Test the battery. you want 12.4 volts at standstill (everything off) If not put it on charge.Then you want to start it.Test the volts again and you are looking for 14.1-14.9 volts for your model. If you battery is more that 3 years old and you have it stood up for long periods i would be inclined to change it.My guess is you fit a new battery and all will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budda Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Mine did this, it was just a loose battery connection. Worth a look first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Battery. No spark to make it fire/turnover. Weak spark wont ignite fuel + runs like shite. Open throttle with weak spark wont help it.. Test the battery. you want 12.4 volts at standstill (everything off) If not put it on charge.Then you want to start it.Test the volts again and you are looking for 14.1-14.9 volts for your model. If you battery is more that 3 years old and you have it stood up for long periods i would be inclined to change it.My guess is you fit a new battery and all will be good. That makes a lot of sense but I have to wonder that if the battery is goosed why wouldn't it run ok after a bump start? Surely the alternator would take care of business, which is why I though it might be a charging issue. @John I'll check the reg/rec out. I know they can get hot and don't last forever. Battery leads are tight Thanks for the replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Either charging circuit or user error. I suspect the latter to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YZ faybo Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 I know its not an R1 but my old R6 did the same, turned out to be a fooked regulator which fooked the battery. Same symptons as yours, below 4k it just spluttered and the rev counter went blank and lights had small fits and caused the bike to stall, bumping worked for all of 5ft then again dead, new regulator and charged battery and she behaved her self after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 I know its not an R1 but my old R6 did the same, turned out to be a fooked regulator which fooked the battery. Same symptons as yours, below 4k it just spluttered and the rev counter went blank and lights had small fits and caused the bike to stall, bumping worked for all of 5ft then again dead, new regulator and charged battery and she behaved her self after that. It's pointing more towards this. Just checked the battery and it's fine and fully charged. The way the bike is showing random electrical failiures all over suggests it's the one component that regulates it all. Off to stick a meter up it's arse now. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 That makes a lot of sense but I have to wonder that if the battery is goosed why wouldn't it run ok after a bump start? Surely the alternator would take care of business, which is why I though it might be a charging issue. @John I'll check the reg/rec out. I know they can get hot and don't last forever. Battery leads are tight Thanks for the replies Once your battery is charged you will be able to do the next tests as i described.A simple test to see if your Reg/Rec is naffed is start the bike and put headlights on.When you rev the engine the lights should get brighter.IF they get dimmer when revved it is naffed,they also can blow bulbs all the time. Also. If you put a multimeter on the battery when you get it started you should be getting 14.1-14.9 volts.If you get this amount your alternator/reg/rec are fine. A battery will degrade over time and will lose its charge until one day it just wont go.Just like any battery really.They do not last forever...i have a tool that does load tests on batteries to see if they are ok or not.You will be surprised how many batteries i have looked at that show 12.4 volts and then you load test them and they are bad. Either charging circuit or user error. I suspect the latter to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 So the formula is; battery ok = reg/rec ok = charging ok = alternator ok = bad earth or twat connection or cdi fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 So the formula is; battery ok = reg/rec ok = charging ok = alternator ok = bad earth or twat connection or cdi fail What volts is the battery showing at standstill? you need OVER 12.4 for the CDI to work properly. I will say that your alternator/stator is ok I will say your Reg/Rec is ok You said this:- Doesn't turn over at all. Tried a bump and it fired up and ran like a bag of spanners for a while, with no reaction to any throttle twisting, then faded out and stopped. The fact that it does not even turn over on the starter points to your STARTING circuit. So ignition barrel,starter switch,stater motor,starter relay etc. Now you say your battery is fully charged, so why did it not turn over on the starter? Think about it... It sounds like the battery does not have enough cranking amps (dead) to start the bike or keep it running.It ran like a bag of spanners due to poor spark and low volts to CDI.A load test would rule this out. You need to get the bike to turn over on the starter before you look at anything else IMO. Like i said, How old is the battery? How do you know is ok? I think you can hook up the multimeter to the battery and then hit the starter,then volts should plummet to less than 11 volts if nackered.As i say i have a proper dedicated tool to test them. i have seen bikes that will turn over but not start.. New battery was put on and boom, it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 What volts is the battery showing at standstill? you need OVER 12.4 for the CDI to work properly. I will say that your alternator/stator is ok I will say your Reg/Rec is ok You said this:- Doesn't turn over at all. Tried a bump and it fired up and ran like a bag of spanners for a while, with no reaction to any throttle twisting, then faded out and stopped. The fact that it does not even turn over on the starter points to your STARTING circuit. So ignition barrel,starter switch,stater motor,starter relay etc. Now you say your battery is fully charged, so why did it not turn over on the starter? Think about it... It sounds like the battery does not have enough cranking amps (dead) to start the bike or keep it running.It ran like a bag of spanners due to poor spark and low volts to CDI.A load test would rule this out. You need to get the bike to turn over on the starter before you look at anything else IMO. Like i said, How old is the battery? How do you know is ok? I think you can hook up the multimeter to the battery and then hit the starter,then volts should plummet to less than 11 volts if nackered.As i say i have a proper dedicated tool to test them. i have seen bikes that will turn over but not start.. New battery was put on and boom, it started. My battery conclusion is based purely on plugging the battery charger in and it saying 'there's nothing for me to do here' Further testing needs to be done when I finish work and when I retrieve my circuit tester from one of the trucks that's out at the mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 My battery conclusion is based purely on plugging the battery charger in and it saying 'there's nothing for me to do here' Further testing needs to be done when I finish work and when I retrieve my circuit tester from one of the trucks that's out at the mo Ahhh i see. I still reckon its the battery myself.. It would explain why it wont start on the starter button.As soon as you hit it (click sound) & the battery dies.When you bumped it you gave it a jolt (if you like) of charge, enough to start it.But as the battery is kaput it cannot sustain all the draw on the battery so splutters & dies. When you opened the throttle it did not respond as the fuel was not being ignited properly and you were flooding the engine.I bet if you pulled the plugs they would be wet with unburnt fuel.So your plugs will be fouled,you will need to take these out and clean them. When you get home you need to focus on getting the bike to at least turn over on the starter as this part is failing and you need to find out why 1st.(unless you plan to bump start it all the time ) Can you not borrow a good battery off a fellow PB'er near you just to try.A new one will cost you about £45-£50.Yours will be a GT12B-4 When you get it going we can then move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyJim Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 electrickery is not my bag so I think the possible cause have been well covered by others in the know. whatever it is, the symptoms you describe are not an error code. on the 4xv, the rev counter can display error codes for the TPS [throttle position sensor], the exup valve and also the fuel level sender. I can't remember what they are respectively, but it shows them by flicking the rev counter to a particular numer, eg 7k rpm, for a second, then back to zero for a second, and then showing the actual engine rpm for a second or two. it will repeat that until the fault is fixed. once you get yours sorted, an easy way to see what it looks like is to lift the tank & disconnect the green wire [fuel level sender] and then switch on the ignition. whatever your problem is, I hope you can get it sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Ahhh i see. I still reckon its the battery myself.. It would explain why it wont start on the starter button.As soon as you hit it (click sound) & the battery dies.When you bumped it you gave it a jolt (if you like) of charge, enough to start it.But as the battery is kaput it cannot sustain all the draw on the battery so splutters & dies. When you opened the throttle it did not respond as the fuel was not being ignited properly and you were flooding the engine.I bet if you pulled the plugs they would be wet with unburnt fuel.So your plugs will be fouled,you will need to take these out and clean them. When you get home you need to focus on getting the bike to at least turn over on the starter as this part is failing and you need to find out why 1st.(unless you plan to bump start it all the time ) Can you not borrow a good battery off a fellow PB'er near you just to try.A new one will cost you about £45-£50.Yours will be a GT12B-4 When you get it going we can then move on. Thanks very much Budgetboy! It was the battery. I took the battery off the gpz and tho the terminals are the wrong way round I managed to get it connected. Fired up sweet straight off, tested the voltage on tickover; 14.1V, so it's charging. Revved up and the headlights don't change brightness at all. New battery tomorrow, just need to fix the weather then Bigs thanks to all of you! This is going to cost me a small fortune in beer one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Make sure it's not over-charging too, otherwise you'll be replacing your battery fairly regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks very much Budgetboy! It was the battery. I took the battery off the gpz and tho the terminals are the wrong way round I managed to get it connected. Fired up sweet straight off, tested the voltage on tickover; 14.1V, so it's charging. Revved up and the headlights don't change brightness at all. New battery tomorrow, just need to fix the weather then Bigs thanks to all of you! This is going to cost me a small fortune in beer one day No problem buddy. Its often the simple things that are overlooked. Glad its working now,happy riding. Make sure it's not over-charging too, otherwise you'll be replacing your battery fairly regularly. 14.1 is within tolerance mate. (14.1-14.9 for his model) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzo Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 At what revs, and is it keeping the voltage down across the whole rev range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudgetBoy Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 At what revs, and is it keeping the voltage down across the whole rev range? Its normally around 3000rpm, but it should not go above or below 14.1-14.9,as long as the volts do not go above or below the figures it should be ok (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Foo do not trust a battery charger if you can get it to crank over or stick the headlights on and see how bright they are, failing that use a free capacity tester at a garage (not a nice thing for a battery) You are better off leaving your dipped beam on and seeing how it last then once fully discharged charge it upfully and do it again. This is know as a cheap way of deep cycling or capacity testing. How does your main connector block by the yokes look like? Does it start now and run right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annaz Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Foo do not trust a battery charger if you can get it to crank over or stick the headlights on and see how bright they are, failing that use a free capacity tester at a garage (not a nice thing for a battery) You are better off leaving your dipped beam on and seeing how it last then once fully discharged charge it upfully and do it again. This is know as a cheap way of deep cycling or capacity testing. How does your main connector block by the yokes look like? Does it start now and run right? John you need to read the above bits It's more or less sorted just need to run some simple tests once the shiny new battree turns up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uggiebear Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Jebus man are you that bad with electrics???? Cold weather can drop a battery. What has happened is you have no capacity left in your battery coz its fooking old and the plates have disolved. You get the correct voltage reading but no current as soon as you load it up it drops voltage like no tomorrow. Too many words no pictures so sorry did not read all the posts. Saying which can we have some pictures of your beauty (R1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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